My journey towards the three stars (3*)

[admikar]

When we got back, there were grilled - or rather, lightly cremated - hot dogs available.

 

[EFX]

To answer the question for instructors:

Here deco is a speciality course within cmas. So in the 3* only 2 simulated decodives with smb are done, max depth 30m. I am quite strict, it must be done horizontal and 12 m is not then 10 and then 14. It is a constant depth and +/- 50 cm is ok .
You see that this is for sportsdivers difficult. For techdivers easy. When a technical diver has adv nitrox or higher done with me, i know they can also do real decodives. So I dont have to do another 2 simulated dives, they are done already in the adv nitrox course. A techcourse also starts in shallows and simulated deco. But 3* is different from a decocourse, holding a briefing, organising dives as responsable diver is part of 3*. Guiding also.

I went to a CMAS training progression website and I am a little confused by it in relation to the discussion here. The training on the website is organized in categories called Diver*, Diver**, Diver***, Diver****, Instructor*, etc.. I assume that Diver*** is the same as 3* in this thread. Under Diver** is training for advanced nitrox. Does this cert include any deco? If so, can Storker start with this cert and progress without the DM related skills?

After studying the CMAS progression further I think I get it now, So, maybe I posted too soon. Where PADI, SSI, etc. have progressions that lead one into pro or strictly technical diving (without any instructor/teaching skills), CMAS progresses the diver beginning from beginner (Diver*) all the way to an instructor of different levels for each type of diver. So, if you start with nitrox as a Diver* you progress to advanced nitrox intructor. If extended range diving is your bag then you start at Diver** and progress to extended range instructor. Is this an accurate description?

 

[Storker]

I went to a CMAS training progression website and I am a little confused by it in relation to the discussion here. The training on the website is organized in categories called Diver*, Diver**, Diver***, Diver****, Instructor*, etc.. I assume that Diver*** is the same as 3* in this thread. Under Diver** is training for advanced nitrox. Does this cert include any deco? If so, can Storker start with this cert and progress without the DM related skills?

Which country?

You're right that *=1*, **=2* etc. Up here, nitrox is separate from the stars and is a separate cert. Our Association also has an Advanced nitrox cert, but that, too is separate from the stars. And no deco in 2*. 3* has no accelerated deco, but backgas deco. Personally, I believe that a rec nitrox certification should be required for or included in the 3*, but that's me.

For me, our 3* was the best progression from where I was. As I've said upthread, in club diving everyone pulls their weight, everyone contributes according to ability. So a well-rounded club diver should know a bit about being the dive leader for the day, about serving as a boat tender or captain for the day, operate the club's compressor etc., etc., etc. And getting the skills I've partly acquired as a member of the club put in a proper framework, filling in all the holes is my primary ambition for taking the 3*. The underwater dive skills are secondary to me, both kicks/buoyancy/trim and the different special dives like e.g. search. Rescue was covered pretty well in my RD class, but getting the view another agency has is always useful. The assistant instructorship is incidental for me, but the primary goal for some of the other students.

But in the CMAS system, the diver skills (topside or underwater) and the DM skills come as one package. That's just how the system is set up.

And if I wanted to go into tech, I'd probably choose to take those certs with another agency. Because there are so few people going tech that I'd prefer an instructor who trains a lot of tech diving students. And our Association doesn't have instructors who train a lot of tech diving students, at least not for CMAS.

 

[EFX]

The website didn't specify or restrict the info to a particular or group of countries. The only thing I know for certain is the site came up in English which is not necessarily an indication of location. Thanks for clearing that up for me Storker.

 

[Storker]

If you want the official standards and syllabi you want to go to CMAS.org

 

[Germie]

It differs a little bit from country to country, but in general:
1*=open water diver (max 20m with cmas)
2*=advanced open water diver (max 40m with cmas, new standards 57m PO2 1.4) + rescue diver
3*=divemaster (57m in cmas)

Then you can progress to 1* and 2* instructor
***=3*
These above are the international standards.

cmas has licencees in every country and then it can differ a little bit in traingingstandards.
Here 2* and 3* is 30m, but you get a 'brevet international', so if you go travelling it is the 1.4 or national regulation.

Here adv. nitrox and deco can be done after 3*. There is no 'rescue diver' course anymore, that is within 2* now.

If you have a 3* cert you can use it to do an SSI or Padi IDC without problems. 3* is a real Divemaster programm and on the cert is also stated 'Dive Master'. There is no discussion, cmas 3* is divemaster, a lot of people think it is not. But it is.
The only difference is that 3* in my country can be different from the 3* in other countries and it is absolutely different from divemaster within padi or ssi, but it is the same level and if you ever want to do an idc, doing the dm course again is not necessarly and only to earn extra money, refuse it. It is the same ISO-level. Nothing more, nothing less. A 3* meets the requirements to do an idc somewhere. I have done this also in the past. I have seen these discussions also on Facebook and it is time that people know that cmas 3* is Divemaster.

Some countries offer technical diving under cmas flag. Here not.
Where you need within padi for example rescue and deep to start technical diving, you can do it in other agencies directly with 1* and 2*. Or with ow+aow+deep.
This means you can be 2* in a club and also be full trimix diver with another agency. That deco in cmas here only can be done after 3* is a little bit too late. But the adv. nitrox of cmas here is a little bit strange. No deco included, and po2 max 1.4, so a little bit strange. Same with deco, you do it on single tank without decogas. In my eyes you don't plan deco this way, you take a decogas.

 

[Edward3c]

It differs a little bit from country to country, but in general:
1*=open water diver (max 20m with cmas)
2*=advanced open water diver (max 40m with cmas, new standards 57m PO2 1.4) + rescue diver
3*=divemaster (57m in cmas)

Then you can progress to 1* and 2* instructor
***=3*
These above are the international standards.

cmas has licencees in every country and then it can differ a little bit in traingingstandards.
Here 2* and 3* is 30m, but you get a 'brevet international', so if you go travelling it is the 1.4 or national regulation.

Here adv. nitrox and deco can be done after 3*. There is no 'rescue diver' course anymore, that is within 2* now.

If you have a 3* cert you can use it to do an SSI or Padi IDC without problems. 3* is a real Divemaster programm and on the cert is also stated 'Dive Master'. There is no discussion, cmas 3* is divemaster, a lot of people think it is not. But it is.
The only difference is that 3* in my country can be different from the 3* in other countries and it is absolutely different from divemaster within padi or ssi, but it is the same level and if you ever want to do an idc, doing the dm course again is not necessarly and only to earn extra money, refuse it. It is the same ISO-level. Nothing more, nothing less. A 3* meets the requirements to do an idc somewhere. I have done this also in the past. I have seen these discussions also on Facebook and it is time that people know that cmas 3* is Divemaster.

Some countries offer technical diving under cmas flag. Here not.
Where you need within padi for example rescue and deep to start technical diving, you can do it in other agencies directly with 1* and 2*. Or with ow+aow+deep.
This means you can be 2* in a club and also be full trimix diver with another agency. That deco in cmas here only can be done after 3* is a little bit too late. But the adv. nitrox of cmas here is a little bit strange. No deco included, and po2 max 1.4, so a little bit strange. Same with deco, you do it on single tank without decogas. In my eyes you don't plan deco this way, you take a decogas.

The only thing I’m getting from you posts is you don’t like 1.4 po2 for setting the MOD.
Just glad BSAC isn’t part of CMAS as Nitrox is taught as part of core training in Ocean Diver and above.

 

[Storker]

the adv. nitrox of cmas here is a little bit strange. No deco included, and po2 max 1.4, so a little bit strange. Same with deco, you do it on single tank without decogas. In my eyes you don't plan deco this way, you take a decogas.

If this is correct, your national Adv. Nitrox is pretty different from the CMAS standards.

CMAS Advanced Nitrox Diver Standard
[...]
4. Practical Open Water Limitations:
4.1. The permitted depth is limited to maximum ppO2 for diving of 1.4bar.
4.2. The maximum permitted pO2 for Stage-Stops is 1.6bar.
[...]
7. Practical Skills:
7.1. Selecting the correct Nitrox mix for the planned maximum operating depth (MOD).
7.2. The preparation of Nitrox Dive plans and back-up. This includes gas selection for the planned MOD and
decompression.
7.3. Equipment configuration for Stage-Stop diving.
7.4. The accurate execution of a prepared dive plan.
7.5. Testing the percentage oxygen content of all gas mixtures.
7.6. Functionally check of diving equipment and pre-dive buddy checks etc.
7.7. Competing stage-stops, within time limits, within ±0.5-metres and any required Air-breaks.
7.8. Gas shutdown in the event of a free flow
7.9. Demonstrate gas switching
7.10. Deployment of a Delayed Surface Marker Buoy (DSMB) of the correct colour.
7.11. Dealing with a simulated out-gas emergency situation; calling for additional gas by deploying an appropriate
coloured DSMB.
7.12. Carry out a correct pre-dive briefing.
7.13. Carry out a correct debriefing after the dive (including the evaluation of the dive itself).

http://www.cmas.org/document?sessionId=&fileId=2145&language=1
So, both accelerated deco on rich mixes and 1.6 bar pPO2 during deco.

All CMAS training standards are available to the public at CMAS International Diver Training Standards and Procedures Manual

 

[Germie]

Yes, sometimes national standards differ from the overruling international standards. So you follow during teaching the national standards, but you get an international cert and then it is 1.6.

It seems that in Spain there is no difference in the max depth of 40m between open water divers and advanced open water divers. I haven't checked it, only dove there when I was already a 3* diver.

In Italy the 3* to 60m is accepted. I have seen this a few weeks ago on a list to book diving.

 

[admikar]

2*=advanced open water diver (max 40m with cmas, new standards 57m PO2 1.4) + rescue diver

Can you provide link for new standards? Nothing on CMAS site.