Investigating the idea of a drysuit ... where to begin

[Zef]

OP,
There has been lots of discussion on SB, even recently, about the merits of Neoprene vs. Trilam (membrane type suits).

The are definitively 3 camps:
1. Those that favor Neoprene drysuits over Membrane types suits.
2. Those that favor Membrane drysuits over Neoprene type suits.
3. Those that are not hung up on the pros/cons of either suit type.

Those that favor neoprene drysuits, in my observation, seem to go out of their way to make a case against membrane suits.

Those who favor membrane drysuits, in my observation, don't give a rats behind about what others are wearing in the water....they tend to be happy with their choice or they find reason to switch to the other material selection.

I have never dived in a neoprene drysuit, but from my research I have concluded that sizing is a bit more critical and neoprene suits tend to be less forgiving to body type changes and undergarment choice. If you size a neoprene drysuit with a thick undergarment and only dive with a thin one, you will have larger air pocket than necessary and this can lead to frustration. If you size it for a thin one and find it necessary to add layers you may find it uncomfortable or impossible to wear the suit with extra bulk.

Membrane types suits also are impacted by sizing, but they are not meant to hug the body as much as a neoprene suit so they are a bit more flexible with regards to the thickness of undergarments (within reason) by nature as the membrane itself provides no insulation where as neoprene suits do. Membrane type suits can be adapted to all water temperatures and if a lighter weight, waterproof, breathable fabric suit is chosen one can be relatively comfortable both in and out of the water in most climates year round.

Which material is right for you is a decision based on the environment you will be diving in, what your budget can support, what you desire from a suit, among other the many criteria to consider.

The advice on ScubaBoard is ultimately worth as much as you pay for it. Take all comments with a grain of salt and ask lots of question...and keep asking questions. You will find that much advice is based on bias developed from limited experience, and some advice is based on a plethora of experience. Asking questions and drilling down into peoles experience will help sift out the advice based on bias from the advice based on experience.

As I stated before, and it has been echoed by others, regardless of suit material, fit is the critical factor when making an investment in a drysuit...just about everything else tends to be a matter of opinion and personal choice.

-Z

 

[broncobowsher]

Example of why a cheap used 1st suit is good.

Locals I dive with swear that socks and rock boots are the only way to go. Local advise is generally good. Got a used suit that is set up that way. I went through a couple variations of boots. Used rock boots, sneakers, wetsuit booties. I hated every version. From gearing up, excessive layers, etc. None of that stuff worked FOR ME. So a little more research and when I ordered my real suit I got attached boots. I love it. Works for ME. Learned my lesson on the cheap suit first.

 

[DavidFL]

I went through buying "my first drysuit" (in 50+ years of diving) in the last 24 months. As this thread is developing, an answer is forming to why there isn't a more simple and straightforward 'checklist' or path for a new dry suit diver: lots of personal dependent variables. I think the advice to get a relatively cheap used suit first is excellent. For what it's worth, I ended up buying a made-to-measure trilam suit. I have bought three different 'sets' of undergarments because of the range of water temperature between winter time deep tech ocean dives in Florida (still pretty warm and sweaty) and the Pacific Northwest (I have used it on two dives in the PNW in Puget Sound in November). I had my suit made without attached boots, primarily because I knew I would be travelling with the suit and I wanted to be able to turn it completely inside out to dry it. Here's what I learned so far, but I only have about 20 dives in the drysuit up to now:

1. Trilam vs. crushed neoprene....pretty close to the first question: inconclusive. I went for trilam because it seemed to me that it would be easier to tailor the protection with different undergarments for the wide range of conditions I intend to use the suit. So far so good, but I only have experience with the trilam. Since starting my journey I have read some pretty good postings by advocates of crushed neoprene. Ice divers and those in really seriously cold water make a good case.

2. Fit: incredibly hard to know much about before you try. I went for made-to-measure, among other things, because off-the-rack sizes don't work very well for me in wetsuits. But how much room in the fit do you need to allow for the undergarments? Depends. How much room in the fit do you need to allow for flexibility? Depends. Valve drills with a Weezle+ undergarment in back mounted doubles is probably my most demanding case....but that is a difficult skill in any exposure protection so how much of the problem is the suit/undergarment? Figuring out what fit you want and/or need is the best case for picking up a used suit first and just trying it out over time on your body in your diving environment.

3. Durability/longevity: It is way too early in my drysuit journey for me to make any conclusions. Lots of drysuit divers I meet can tell me about modifications they have either done themselves or had done, and fixing of leaks. For what it's worth, here in central Florida, a very large percentage of the dry suit divers I meet are diving the Florida caves. And my very unscientific poll with too small a sample size has about 4-to-1 preference for trilam in this place at this time.

4. Attached boots vs neoprene socks and rock boots or sneakers. I completely get the hassle of having to deal with detached boots as another layer, and by the way, I have to have a different size of detached boots when I'm wearing minimal undergarments in Florida than when I'm wearing the Weezle with Weezle insulated socks in the PNW. But the overriding reason I'm still glad I didn't get attached boots is that I NEED to be able to turn the whole suit inside out to dry out. I have tried a few times to just let it dry without doing that, and the combination of sweat and wool socks inside the dry suit while I'm using it has exactly the same sweaty sock manifestation of a locker room....but on steroids because in a watertight suit, there is no place for it to go even after setting out to dry for a loooonnnng time.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

You wouldn't.

In my experience, the difference is relatively minimal between a well-fitted neoprene drysuit and a well-fitted trilam drysuit. However, my experience is that neoprene is slightly less drag. Almost all of my diving now is in a cave, where you're sensitive to distance swam and gas used. Having swam literally miles per day (albeit ~2.5ish, still "miles") in both neoprene and trilam suits, I haven't noticed much difference.

This is the first I've heard of someone claiming neoprene to be more drag.

I agree, hence the reason I asked the poster to clarify why they felt wearing a neoprene suit was less energy efficient.

 

[TrimixToo]

I posted something about the trilam vs. crushed neoprene question not too long ago. I have both. The short version:

Trilam:

- Is a for a great travel suit because it can be 100% dry in two hours.
- Is less expensive, usually.
- Is less bulky.
- Does not stretch. Not even a little bit.
- Is easier (IMO) to learn to dive.

Crushed neoprene:

- Takes at least a day to dry. My older suit takes 2 days, my newer one takes one. Two full days, and one full day, that is, and that's if they're turned inside out halfway through.
- Is slightly warmer.
- Is *much* harder to put holes in.
- Stretches a lot like a wet suit, but not quite as much.
- Is a bit harder to learn to dive because suit squeeze is far less pronounced. You can easily underinflate the suit and get cold, making you wonder why people told you dry suits were so much warmer.
- Costs considerably more, usually.

I'll echo the good advice to buy something used and figure out what you want to be different. Then buy something that solves those problems. Seals you can change in the field are worth their weight in gold as far as I'm concerned but that can wait for suit #2. Socks with rock boots solve a lot of foot fit problems (especially if you have wide feet like I do) but that can wait for #2 as well. This is sports equipment, and the chances of finding something close to right for *you* on the first time are on a par with finding the right bicycle, tennis racket, or running shoe on the first try. You might get lucky, but most don't.

I'll also second the Weezle Extreme recommendation. It might be too warm sometimes, but you can always get less expensive stuff that's not as warm. Cheap fleece tops and bottoms are everywhere, for instance.

 

[BoltSnap]

OP,
There has been lots of discussion on SB, even recently, about the merits of Neoprene vs. Trilam (membrane type suits).

The are definitively 3 camps:
1. Those that favor Neoprene drysuits over Membrane types suits.
2. Those that favor Membrane drysuits over Neoprene type suits.
3. Those that are not hung up on the pros/cons of either suit type.

Those that favor neoprene drysuits, in my observation, seem to go out of their way to make a case against membrane suits.

Those who favor membrane drysuits, in my observation, don't give a rats behind about what others are wearing in the water....they tend to be happy with their choice or they find reason to switch to the other material selection.

I have never dived in a neoprene drysuit, but from my research I have concluded that sizing is a bit more critical and neoprene suits tend to be less forgiving to body type changes and undergarment choice. If you size a neoprene drysuit with a thick undergarment and only dive with a thin one, you will have larger air pocket than necessary and this can lead to frustration. If you size it for a thin one and find it necessary to add layers you may find it uncomfortable or impossible to wear the suit with extra bulk.

Membrane types suits also are impacted by sizing, but they are not meant to hug the body as much as a neoprene suit so they are a bit more flexible with regards to the thickness of undergarments (within reason) by nature as the membrane itself provides no insulation where as neoprene suits do. Membrane type suits can be adapted to all water temperatures and if a lighter weight, waterproof, breathable fabric suit is chosen one can be relatively comfortable both in and out of the water in most climates year round.

Which material is right for you is a decision based on the environment you will be diving in, what your budget can support, what you desire from a suit, among other the many criteria to consider.

The advice on ScubaBoard is ultimately worth as much as you pay for it. Take all comments with a grain of salt and ask lots of question...and keep asking questions. You will find that much advice is based on bias developed from limited experience, and some advice is based on a plethora of experience. Asking questions and drilling down into peoles experience will help sift out the advice based on bias from the advice based on experience.

As I stated before, and it has been echoed by others, regardless of suit material, fit is the critical factor when making an investment in a drysuit...just about everything else tends to be a matter of opinion and personal choice.

-Z

I believe that your analysis of the disadvantageous of a neoprene suit is not accurate at all. You seem to lump old fashioned uncompressed/uncrushed neoprene suit with crushed and compressed neoprene in addition to other inaccuracies.

 

[runsongas]

What is your budget and timeline? Do you fit standard sizes well?

A used "starter" suit can be a good option and in that respect a used fusion is a decent option. It can work well as a backup suit, travels well with the lighter skins, and is forgiving on the sizing. I still dive a former rental fusion tech I got from a LDS.

if you don't want to wait around, seaskin suits made in the UK are affordable for a new suit

if budget isn't as tight, an ursuit is hard to argue against. good quality and the pricing is more reasonable than santi/waterproof/DUI

cordura/breathable are options for trilam suits. breathable suits allow sweat to evaporate during the SI, really helpful in socal due to warm surface temps but relatively chilly water temps. I don't have a breathable core in my fusion, so I always have to unzip during the SI in the warmer months. cordura refers to the outermost layer of the trilam and adds durability.

crushed/compressed/collapsed neoprene are similar. DUI has a patent on crushing neoprene iirc, so other companies have to refer to it as collapsed/compressed. just don't get an old school uncompressed neoprene suit. you end up having to deal with the same buoyancy swing as a 7mm.

 

[Marie13]

Used starter suit is a good option IF you can find one in your size. If you’re a hard fit in regular clothes, there’s a good chance you’ll be a hard fit in drysuits.

 

[admikar]

First, cheap used suit......one of the best advises I have ever heard on this forum.
I got lucky to have a friend which owns a drysuit (actually, two of them in different sizes) that never dove and have no plans to ever dive in a drysuit. So, I got to choose one and use it like my own. Still figuring some things out, but I think I have good idea what I would want from my drysuit.

But the overriding reason I'm still glad I didn't get attached boots is that I NEED to be able to turn the whole suit inside out to dry out. I have tried a few times to just let it dry without doing that, and the combination of sweat and wool socks inside the dry suit while I'm using it has exactly the same sweaty sock manifestation of a locker room....but on steroids because in a watertight suit, there is no place for it to go even after setting out to dry for a loooonnnng time.

Solution to this problem is a little bit dependent on how tolerant is SWMBO (if there is one).
I stole my wife's hair dryer, bought a t-piece in plumbing store and cut out two pieces of garden hose. With a bit of a duct tape, connect it all together, stuck hoses into boots and let it blow for an hour or so (on cold). Completely dry!
Now,what I usually do is put some liquid soap in both boots, stuck garden hose until it stops foaming and dry it out. My suit smells like flowers (or whatever flavor SWMBO buys).

 

[DavidFL]

I stole my wife's hair dryer,

Thanks; might give it a try. I've used a variety of dryers, some DIY, some not, on snowboard and backcountry ski boots; had been cautious about trying any of them in the drysuit, but a hairdryer on low or air only is a great suggestion, thanks.