Best signaling devices from the searcher’s point of view - update

[Diver below 83]

Without picking on either of you, let's parse what this means for the victim. I agree with both of you re: signaling.
But for the diver that's survived the event and is out there drifting in the current, a dive light won't work reliably during the daytime, especially among the wave reflections. At night, it won't work unless the diver is aware enough to locate the sound of the plane and direct the light in that direction.
I'm interested in the best choice for the semi-conscious floating diver.
At night, it's clear that even a dim flashing 9v light will help, especially for those on NVG's, but specifically because it flashes. Many studies have shown the marked increase in visibility of a flashing light over a constant light.
During the day, it's harder. A signal mirror will clearly stand out if the user can handle it and there is sunlight to be used. But absent sunlight, and a conscious, active diver, we're short a good beacon except for radio/GPS, and that is battery-limited.

Thoughts?

Important note about lights use with NODS. An LED light will not show up while wearing NODS. Both green lasers and LED lights won’t work. So a good old standard non LED light will serve you really well at night

 

[JXT71]

You have misunderstood what your google search told you. Part of your post is true, and part of it is not.

 

[Diver below 83]

You have misunderstood what your google search told you. Part of your post is true, and part of it is not.

Are you replying to me? I didn’t google anything. That information was from a post in which a USCG rescued a diver who was using a laser. The USCG clarified that while under NODS they cannot see the laser. Or LED lights.

 

[JXT71]

The United States Coast Guard has officially stated that NVGs cannot see a green laser or LED lights? I'll look harder to find that report, because the best I've got (outside of personally using NVGs and seeing LED-generated light quite clearly, having done a few live-fire ranges under those conditions) are FAA safety notices declaring some ranges of LEDs, particularly the low reds, to be difficult to see through NVGs - but that wouldn't make all light produced from an LED invisible.

Can you give the post ID you're referring to? I'd like to see it - and probably PM that user.

 

[Diver below 83]

The United States Coast Guard has officially stated that NVGs cannot see a green laser or LED lights? I'll look harder to find that report, because the best I've got (outside of personally using NVGs and seeing LED-generated light quite clearly, having done a few live-fire ranges under those conditions) are FAA safety notices declaring some ranges of LEDs, particularly the low reds, to be difficult to see through NVGs - but that wouldn't make all light produced from an LED invisible.

Can you give the post ID you're referring to? I'd like to see it - and probably PM that user.

US: Drifting diver rescued by aiming laser at searching helicopters | Laser Pointer Safety - News of aviation-related incidents, arrests, etc.

“The Coast Guard pilot who saved my life reported to me that the green laser and/or any LED light is not seen with their night vision goggles. Three of the four crew were wearing those goggles.”

 

[JXT71]

Oh, it's just that article again. Too easy. Ron misheard what was said and he is wrong. You are also wrong when you repeat it. That's why some users here didn't want to let the issue go in the last thread you tried to push this on - you're propagating misinformation. I base that of several things, one being first hand experience that disproves what you and Ron said. The second being USCG safety manuals from the past year that still include a variety of signaling devices and tools (an LED flashlight being one, and no lasers). The third being FAA safety notices on the visibility of LEDs with NVGs. We'll start with those (and we won't mention the videos already posted that outright show people hitting helicopter cams with lasers).

Might as well add this since you like that article so much: If 3 of 4 crew members were wearing NVGs and he was using a dive light - same result. If he had a strobe - same result. If he had a signal mirror - probably found sooner. The article also made a point to mention light diffusion (turning the pointer to something more akin to a focused flashlight).

 

[Diver below 83]

Oh, it's just that article again. Too easy. Ron misheard what was said and he is wrong. You are also wrong when you repeat it. That's why some users here didn't want to let the issue go in the last thread you tried to push this on - you're propagating misinformation. I base that of several things, one being first hand experience that disproves what you and Ron said. The second being USCG safety manuals from the past year that still include a variety of signaling devices and tools (an LED flashlight being one, and no lasers). The third being FAA safety notices on the visibility of LEDs with NVGs. We'll start with those (and we won't mention the videos already posted that outright show people hitting helicopter cams with lasers).

Might as well add this since you like that article so much: If 3 of 4 crew members were wearing NVGs and he was using a dive light - same result. If he had a strobe - same result. If he had a signal mirror - probably found sooner. The article also made a point to mention light diffusion (turning the pointer to something more akin to a focused flashlight).

No one was questioning if the laser or light was visible. People were questioning if said laser would cause damage to pilots eyes. Two completely different things. No one was trying to push the visibility factor through NODS. The question was if a laser would work for SAR. It did. And the point of 3 of the crew wearing nods and the laser and light not being visible was the fact had they all been wearing them it was highly unlikely that they would have spotted his laser. Thankfully one crew member didn’t have his NODS on. Hence he spotted his laser and the diver was rescued. The point being was have as many signaling devices as possible because there was no one shot cure all. This is also the reason some mentioned IR markers as opposed to just a standard strobe

 

[Diver below 83]

FAA Warns NVG Pilots Operating Near LED Lights - Flight Safety Foundation

I understand the article is talking specifically to the risk associated with objects with LED, but not only does it state the issue of NODS with LEDs it also clearly explains the situation with the lost diver and the 1 crew member who wasn’t using their NODS, because current recommendations are at least one crew member scanning without them for light sources that wouldn’t be seen through the NODS. So I’m not sure what your trying to argue? That recommendation is the reason the single crew member spotted his laser.

Now if your carrying an Flashlight with a dual powered head like a surefire vampire or your carrying a IR marker then you won’t have an issue. If your not. It’s a ?

 

[GJC]

It looks like only certains types of NVGs have difficulty seeing a very specific type of red LED that is used for marking fixed obstructions. See attached.

White LED lights and strobes should be very visible to all NVGs.

Green lasers may also not be in the range visible to certain types of NVGs

 

[Dan]

To those who like to dive in Indonesia, here is a good thread to read:

Updated 2018 - Emergency Equipment to assist Search & Rescue