How do you feel about Chinese made gear?

[Midwesterndvr]

Don’t throw this on Reagan, this problem is definitely shared by all administrations since Nixon. Well except the current one.

 

[dmaziuk]

Don’t throw this on Reagan, this problem is definitely shared by all administrations since Nixon. Well except the current one.

Poor guy, he's got nothing left to sell.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The x-presidents enabled the manufacturers looking to increase profits and find a way out of tighter environmental restrictions, labor union pressures, higher wages, etc.
So now we are making noise about environmental this and that, world wide pollution (China’s bad air eventually circles the earth and passed over California first), and then there’s the world wide plastic epidemic. Instead of building quality products that last many years and have parts available, now we have dirt cheap goods that last only a few months/years with no parts available. The new part is a whole new unit and the defective one goes into a landfill. How is this sustainable?
I’m using old Scubapro stuff from the 70’s and 80’s and older Conshelf stuff. They are still running strong, and they’re beautiful to use.
Will Chinese regs/gear be around in 30-50 years from now? Or in a landfill? Does anybody really care? Since the stuff is so cheap to buy just go and buy a few more. Forget about services, just use it until it quits working then buy a new one. I see this mentioned here on SB as an actual strategy!

 

[Schwob]

Most here word their opinion, be it this way or another on a phone, tablet or conputer made in China or at least major conponents made there. Most Japanese and South Korean companies that compete very well on price need to have many of their components made in China or Thailand... They just do it right (not politically or environmentally, but quality wise) and on large scale and fully under their control. Those companies that source there, be they German US, Japanese ir what not w/o having full control and oversight have and will continue to find out about the ingeniuety with which shortcuts will be found ... and exploited. Rareley a mass produced product with electronics anymore where not at least the PCB assembly comes from China or another nearby even lower wage country. Lower production numbers still sometime warrant US making if PCBs, but. Many US made products will have significant $s in parts or components in them that are made in a low wage country, likely China, but not always. If it is a device with a real part count, the sticker "Made in USA" (or Japan or Germany) certainly does not mean that a good number of parts on there, often crucial ones, aren't from China.
There are big issues on all fronts... like everywhere really. Simplifications never help...

 

[dmaziuk]

The x-presidents enabled the manufacturers looking to increase profits and find a way out of tighter environmental restrictions, labor union pressures, higher wages, etc.
So now we are making noise about environmental this and that, world wide pollution (China’s bad air eventually circles the earth and passed over California first), and then there’s the world wide plastic epidemic.

Back when they switched air conditioners from freon to ozone-good alternatives, the rumour down under was that local garages sold off their ozone-bad gear to Indonesia. Because Shirley freon won't get all the way to South Pole from Bali and so our ozone hole will be safe.

Instead of building quality products that last many years and have parts available, now we have dirt cheap goods that last only a few months/years with no parts available. The new part is a whole new unit and the defective one goes into a landfill. How is this sustainable?

By that logic how are the beer cans sustainable? I don't think anybody is collecting unbroken bottles anymore, to be washed and refilled: they're all crushed, melted, and new ones formed from the glass. This is just an extension of the same trend. Now if we had recycling going properly... instead of throwing whole cars out in the middle of AZ desert, for example.

 

[Schwob]

I don't think anybody is collecting unbroken bottles anymore, to be washed and refilled:

It's still being done, especially where in entivesed. Within the US so, you, sadly, might be correct. But I certainly saw giant bottle washing streets in Herman breweries and also in the only Chinese one I ever visited.

 

[dmaziuk]

It's still being done, especially where in entivesed. Within the US so, you, sadly, might be correct. But I certainly saw giant bottle washing streets in Herman breweries and also in the only Chinese one I ever visited.

Gotta wonder if the amount of energy spent on properly cleaning and sterilizing them during wash is any less than what it takes to crush, melt, and re-blow. Plus if you want to not throw all the nicked, cracked, and broken ones into landfills, you have to build the crushing and melting and re-blowing line anyway. I'm not sure "sadly" actually applies here.

 

[Schwob]

Gotta wonder if the amount of energy spent on properly cleaning and sterilizing them during wash is any less than what it takes to crush, melt, and re-blow. Plus if you want to not throw all the nicked, cracked, and broken ones into landfills, you have to build the crushing and melting and re-blowing line anyway. I'm not sure "sadly" actually applies here.

Well, if this were to turn into an argument (it won't) you might win if that's your aim. Possibly more on societal sentiment than fact, maybe fact is skewed differently in the US duecto large distances and less standardisation and absolutely no re-use infrastructure in place.
Overall it's a complex mess where the energy to clean is a small but not negligible part in the equation.
German experts seem to have determined that plastic multi use bottles (the thick, sturdy kind that doesn't really exist in the US) is slightly better in the overall balance of things than reuseable glass bottles - in Germany that is. That's in a system where almost all multiuse containers actually do stay in the system for re-use - due to the refund you get upon returning the empties and due to the quire good infrastructure in placecto recapture it (everyone selling has to also take back. That number is based on the assumption that both get transported the same distance on average... which they learned is incorrect. Pkastic seems to travel further due to the distribution system of discounters (think Aldi etc) and that is not yet reflected in the math.
As is, they think glass bottles are re-used 50 times on averages, the thick reuseable PET bottles are reused maybe 25 times. Washing between the two may be a wash. Glass is heavier and thus costs more to transport (twice, to the customer and back to the producer) each time. So, if distances were the same the with the reuseable PET bottles as with glass (but they are not), they figure the reuseabke PET bottle saves about 0.7kg of oil (and it's unclearvti me if yhat's over 50 re-uses (so 2 PET bottle lives) or what, but I assume so. But with the larger distances they see that likely is lost again. Also that comparison does not account for what some might think is going on chemically and how that may affect taste or whatnot.
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One way PET bottles don't stand a chance in the energy balance they (them experts) compute (again, Germany, not the US - shorter distances, real systems in place). Too many losses, even so you get a refund upon returning too, but often smaller. Most of the losses are due to new material having to be added in not insignificant amounts and duecto colored material often only being good for textile fibers.
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Now, in a big place like the US with practically no re-use infrastructure in place and zero will to change that the math will look very different. We may disagree here, but I do see that as "sadly"... and without question so.
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Re-use, where actually institutionalized works very well at very, very high percentages. Without real uniform systems in place it won't work.
Recycling on the other hand is a bit more myth than reality. In Chicago I just recently heard, the actual recycling rate is that dismal 9 or so percent of households do it and the nationwide average is said to be a still dismal 35 percent. And that I think is talking about recycling waste collection. How much of that actually is recycled (not shipped to China or Africa.. or burned or landfilled anyway) may be another story. I don't think anybody could say that single use, even with the best recycling going on stands a chance in how environmentally friendly it is against well implemented and institutionalized multi-use. Not even remotely close. Again, we may differ, but that's what I arrive at.
And if course we all dislike waste, these days even or maybe especially plastic waste, but we just don't do anything really besides "out of sight out of mind" in oh so many forms.
...
Anyway, with multi-use plastic bottles in a good and firm re-use system, while oodles better than single-use plastic, still, what happens to the material after 25 uses? It has to go somewhere... Is it really transformed into energy by burning clean and filtered? Or where does it go?
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And of course if only we could source our beer or water from say mostly up to 100 or even 200 miles away or so and not 1000... or from across an ocean... that might help... it's heavy stuff...
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Anyway, you heard lately of the big world wide environmental problems we are about to face due to glass waste after those mukti-use glass bottles get finally molten down? No? Me neither? Wonder why...
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Plastic on the otherhand does seem to win that battle. Big time... Another "sadly" in my book...
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No time to dig for sources... first two I came across:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjACegQIEBAP&usg=AOvVaw0ajQXpTJHBcb4L3whAf15q
and
Plastik oder Glas?: Welche Flaschen sind umweltfreundlicher? | BR.de
(not the best source, but a start, may need to use google translate)

 

[dmaziuk]

I can tell you that back in the USSR you would rarely buy a bottle with caked-in gunk inside that survived the wash. Rarely as in every once in a while. If you were lucky the gunk stayed in one chunk and you could detect it by seeing and not by tasting.

I can see how plastic bottles would eliminate breakage and famous German quality in the washroom would take care of the gunk, though. Didn't realize they were using plastic.

 

[Hatul]

We've been there before years ago with goods made in Japan, which are now considered very high quality. I'm seeing more and more quality goods coming out of China and from Chinese companies. You certainly can't generalize anymore.