The problem of understocked dive shops.

[Eric Sedletzky]

So,
I’ve been trying to find a wetsuit lately and decided to try something off the rack to see of by chance there might be something that’ll fit half way decent. I’ve been to every local dive shop in my area to see what they carry and the sizes they have. Every one of them seem to have a lot of holes in their lines and never seem to have my size in the type of suit I want. I can’t find any two piece beaver tail style suits in regular scuba suits anymore, or even a one piece that I can use with a hooded vest. I want to find something denser than my freediving suit for scuba. Harvey’s used to be the brand that made two piece beaver tail suits and my LDS used to carry them, but not anymore.
All the LDS’s tell me they can order anything I want, but without it there I have no idea how it will fit. I’m unsure about their return policies for a special order as all of them were somewhat evasive about giving me a direct answer. I don’t think they are crazy about taking back something special ordered because they would have to put in their general inventory but still have to pay more shipping to get it, and then not much guarantee they it will not hang on the tack for months.
So long story short, I gave up on trying to find a wetsuit at an LDS. I was prepared to spend more money if needed for the convenience of having a rack full of suits that I could physically see touch feel and to try on, but no go. They can’t afford to do that anymore.
So I ordered from Leisure Pro because of their great return policy. But here’s the problem. I ordered a 7mm suit based on the sizing chart alone. When I got the suit 8 days later the chest and arms were way too tight. So I got a return label and sent it back. Now a bigger size is on it’s way but I’m waiting over two weeks minimum for the new size to show up. What if this one doesn’t fit then what? I guess order another one and wait another 2 weeks. How many months will this take?
Also, the first suit was $259 (a great price), but then I saw the same suit just a size larger came down to $189.00 so I mentioned that over the phone and they honored the credit but as a store credit only?
I’m just wondering how long this will take and how many more “store credits” I’ll have to deal with before I find something. If Leisure pro falls through with a size then I’m wondering if I’ll get my money back or if I’m stuck with store credit? I suppose I could have ordered 4-5 suits at one time in different brands then send back all the ones I don’t want, but that’s kind of crazy IMO. All the shipping, handling, fuel costs, long time frames, etc. just to find a stupid wetsuit? Jesus!

I’m seeing a downward spiral happening with LDS’s around here that aren’t willing to stock stuff and be full service. The won’t stock full lines which sends customers elsewhere which means they lose the sale which means they don’t make the money which means they have less capital to fix the stocking problem and so on. So now I stuck doing business with a shop 3000 miles away and can’t try anything on one after another and actually see the stuff before I buy it. This sucks!!!
Sorry about the long rant.

Maybe I’ll have to just go custom again. All this started in an effort to support my local shop which has made it almost impossible for me to do so.

 

[JackD342]

Welcome to the world of dive retail. It has always been difficult to keep the "right" selection of items in stock without putting yourself out of business with a load of dead inventory that may be difficult to sell even on a closeout price. Even a staple like wetsuits can be subject to relatively short product lifecycles, as the manufacturer continually refreshes their line with different colors, styles, features, and materials. A shop that brings in a full size run, in multiple thicknesses, may very well find themselves closing out 80% of that initial buy a year or two later. Or equally bad, leaving discontinues stale product on the shelf at full price. And with so much of the business migrating to online sales, it has only gotten worse.

My approach has been to keep a size run of 6 "core" sizes each of mens and womens 3mm jumpsuits on hand for fitting the customer, and then order the item they really want from the same company if the one I have on hand isn't it. No, I don't have the very smallest or the very largest sizes on hand, nor the "shorts and talls." But what I have here allows me to size the customer by trying it on right away over 90% of the time. Unfortunately that also means I put all my eggs in one basket and support just one of my wetsuit vendors, rather than also providing choice of another brand or two.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I found that each company cuts their suits a little bit differently. Some are cut for a average American body type which are always big in the middle and have straight legs and arms with little shape for actual muscles, only fat. Others are a European or Asian cut that are more slight but short and generally small in the chest and thin in the arms.
Pinnacle seemed to be promising for the height but was too tight in the chest and arms and was too big in the waist and also was cut for someone with cankles.

I’m not going to stop working out and start eating like a pig just so I can fit into their version of what a body should look like.

 

[outofofficebrb]

I am a buyer/allocator/planner/forecaster in the outdoor apparel industry. One thing that scuba has going against it is slow turns/turnover of inventory from sales and a smaller market. @JackD342 hit it right on the head when you compare it to regular apparel or apparel in a different market. It is a difficult balancing act and I think that strategy is a good one to use. When you also think about the volume of business that Leisure Pro probably gets compared to your LDS, it is even more amplified. They can afford to take the hits more so than a smaller specialized LDS because they have other business units besides diving that can float the overall business. They order more volume so they qualify for larger discounts from all their vendors. They can negotiate free shipping to them from the vendors, markdown dollars, credits, etc., to help their bottom line. Simply put, the more volume a retailer does, the more buying power they have and they can greater absorb the costs of discounting products (closeouts to customers) and take a bit more risk as a result.They can even play their buy against other vendors - e.g., I will buy into your brand more and do less business with this other brand if you give me a larger discount.

Some companies even have drop ship arrangements on their site. They don’t own the inventory but when you order from them, it ships from the vendor or the distributor. Or Consignment.

Then there is the problem of physical floor space. You only have so much square footage to use. You want to get the highest return on investment possible. With that space you have, what is going to drive the most amount of sales and get the most revenue per square foot? Likely, not an obscure or hardly asked for product but something most customers would want.

It is an unfortunate, sad circumstance and truth when it comes to local retail vs an internet Goliath.

 

[runsongas]

eric, did you try otter bay wetsuits over in monterey? or go really old school and buy some neoprene from jim and make your own suit

 

[JackD342]

I am a buyer/allocator/planner/forecaster in the outdoor apparel industry. One thing that scuba has going against it is slow turns/turnover of inventory from sales and a smaller market. @JackD342 hit it right on the head when you compare it to regular apparel or apparel in a different market. It is a difficult balancing act and I think that strategy is a good one to use. When you also think about the volume of business that Leisure Pro probably gets compared to your LDS, it is even more amplified. They can afford to take the hits more so than a smaller specialized LDS because they have other business units besides diving that can float the overall business. They order more volume so they qualify for larger discounts from all their vendors. They can negotiate free shipping to them from the vendors, markdown dollars, credits, etc., to help their bottom line. Simply put, the more volume a retailer does, the more buying power they have and they can greater absorb the costs of discounting products (closeouts to customers) and take a bit more risk as a result.They can even play their buy against other vendors - e.g., I will buy into your brand more and do less business with this other brand if you give me a larger discount.

Some companies even have drop ship arrangements on their site. They don’t own the inventory but when you order from them, it ships from the vendor or the distributor. Or Consignment.

Then there is the problem of physical floor space. You only have so much square footage to use. You want to get the highest return on investment possible. With that space you have, what is going to drive the most amount of sales and get the most revenue per square foot? Likely, not an obscure or hardly asked for product but something most customers would want.

It is an unfortunate, sad circumstance and truth when it comes to local retail vs an internet Goliath.

Yep. In conversation I often actually describe the wetsuit market as being akin to the "fashion industry" in their product cycles. My main brand is Henderson - at the sub brand level, their "old reliable" is Thermoprene, perhaps the "blue jeans" of their line up. Meanwhile, the other sub brands that I have seen cycled through in the last 10-15 years include Instadry, Hyperstretch, H2, Aqualock, relaunch of Aqualock, Talon, Neosport X-Span, and Thermoprene Pro (which I suspect will eventually replace Thermoprene.) How many did I miss? And don't get me started on their products for other watersports.

 

[W W Meixner]

Eric...

If ''vintage'' style two piece ''beavertail'' suits are your thing...

freedivershop.com...

ELIOS Smooth-Skin Vintage Style Suits...

Best...Warren

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

eric, did you try otter bay wetsuits over in monterey? or go really old school and buy some neoprene from jim and make your own suit

There was a time when I was very interested in making my own suits.
What suspended the venture was the problem of actually locating any neoprene aside of ordering or buying it from a custom suitmaker. I (or them) wasn’t keen on causing conflict with a company who makes their money building and selling wetsuits. Then there was the problem of making a pattern or learning how to make a pattern. There were enough road blocks to make it not worth it to try and overcome all the problems. Years ago you could go down to your local skin diving shop and buy a sheet of rubber, some zippers you may want, a can of glue, and the owner would sell you a pattern. Those days are gone.
Now it’s all Asian produced material and you have to have connections to get the rubber. There doesn’t seem to be any retail outlet for sheets of rubber. I was unable locate a domestic wholesale warehouse willing to sell a DIY’er anything. I was also unable to find any info on how to make my own patterns. All of it is very competitive and hush hush. I suppose I could cut apart a suit at the seams and trace the parts but then If the suit fit in the first place I’d have no reason to do that, and if I did do that I’d have to adjust the size of the parts. I’n not into ruining sheets of rubber just to get over the learning curve on how to figure out pattern making on my own.

So my idea was to just order an oversized wetsuit (like I did) and cut it down and re-glue it then hand sew it to fit me. Wouldn’t be the first time.
At $189 I wouldn’t be too nervous about it.

 

[Jonn]

In the same 'sitch here. Ordered a 'medium tall' back entry drysuit from Bare with a relief zip through my LDS. It's not the most common thing nowdays, but it works great for the diving I do. Was pretty confident about the size. Now they say that Bare is changing their factory location and sizes, the medium tall doesn't exist anymore, and they're pretty sure a large tall is the right choice. "You need extra room for undergarments too, eh?" It's already more money than I was really comfortable with so I'm worried about it, but if I want a drysuit it seems I just have to roll the dice...

 

[MargaritaMike]

They order more volume so they qualify for larger discounts from all their vendors. They can negotiate free shipping to them from the vendors, markdown dollars, credits, etc., to help their bottom line.

Eric...

If ''vintage'' style two piece ''beavertail'' suits are your thing...

freedivershop.com...

ELIOS Smooth-Skin Vintage Style Suits...

Best...Warren

View attachment 519918 View attachment 519919

I'll take the one on the top. I'll even pay the shipping. She doesn't look like she eats much.

Cheers -