Rick_C
Contributor
I recently tested a light (Ocean Quest 3600) that didn't seem to come close to matching the performance claims with the package provided. What do you think? Is this normal and acceptable?
Bogus Dive Light Claims?
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normal yes, acceptable no
usually the burn times are correct since they can be measured easily and cheaply, but the lumens are BS.
Most of those lights from china use super cheap POS batteries and the burn time that you saw is likely due to cheap batteries. If you get a good battery charger *their chargers are also junk*, you can test the batteries and figure out what they're putting out.
If I was to do an actual instrumented test to figure out what's going on, I would use something like an Xtar charger that has a test mode to figure out the actual capacity of the batteries, then repeat the side-by-side using batteries of equal quality. If the batteries that shipped with the unit are not up to snuff, it will result in both reduced brightness and burn time.
usually the burn times are correct since they can be measured easily and cheaply, but the lumens are BS.
Most of those lights from china use super cheap POS batteries and the burn time that you saw is likely due to cheap batteries. If you get a good battery charger *their chargers are also junk*, you can test the batteries and figure out what they're putting out.
If I was to do an actual instrumented test to figure out what's going on, I would use something like an Xtar charger that has a test mode to figure out the actual capacity of the batteries, then repeat the side-by-side using batteries of equal quality. If the batteries that shipped with the unit are not up to snuff, it will result in both reduced brightness and burn time.
fmerkel
Contributor
What tbone said.
I saw some 9000mAh 18650 cells being sold on eBay a couple days ago. These are pure fake trash and likely in the 800mAh range, if that. The bigger the lie, the worse the product. 18650 top out at about 3500mAh.
A light that takes both 18650 and 26650 is not unusual. Unless it's a high end light (expensive) you'll always get a 18650. If you are lucky it'll be at least acceptable. If not, it'll be not very good.
The chargers are almost never very good, even with good lights. It's worth the money to get a decent analyzing charger if you are going to deal with products like this. $25-30 is well spent. There are a LOT of crap li-on cells out there.
I saw some 9000mAh 18650 cells being sold on eBay a couple days ago. These are pure fake trash and likely in the 800mAh range, if that. The bigger the lie, the worse the product. 18650 top out at about 3500mAh.
A light that takes both 18650 and 26650 is not unusual. Unless it's a high end light (expensive) you'll always get a 18650. If you are lucky it'll be at least acceptable. If not, it'll be not very good.
The chargers are almost never very good, even with good lights. It's worth the money to get a decent analyzing charger if you are going to deal with products like this. $25-30 is well spent. There are a LOT of crap li-on cells out there.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
So we're clear: xtar is a Chinese company.
Lots of great companies out of China, and quite a number of bad ones too.
There are a lot more claims made than met in regards to lights. Light Monkey, Dive Rite and a few others do really well.
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@The Chairman location has nothing to do with it, but I have yet to see a light from China come with a high quality 18650 charger and batteries. That includes the expensive lights from Cave Adventurers, HOG, Dive Rite *though their handhelds actually come with a decent 4-bay charger, their backup lights do not*. etc which is why when I recommend them I always recommend a high end charger to go with it.
Light Monkey and Dive Rite are actually two really big offenders in the lumen output category as an FYI. Their claims are simply not possible given the technology they are using.
Light Monkey and Dive Rite are actually two really big offenders in the lumen output category as an FYI. Their claims are simply not possible given the technology they are using.
Counterfeit 18650 batteries are a huge concern in industry. It's not unheard of for an 18650 shell to have a small little battery and ballast added to look like and feel like a real battery. Therr are lots of places that will make them look like high quality batteries as well, so be mindful of your sources for buying from.
fmerkel
Contributor
I've seen some of those batteries taken apart. Weird. You would think that it takes MORE time and effort for the scam than simply making a real cell.
Yes, pretty much all the batteries, chargers, and lights are from China. Some companies may have tight control on the components, specs and manufacturing to get a superior unit with decent performance and reliability. Some of the simple primary/back-up lights are re-brands of a Chinese brand like Brynite, Orcatorch, Archeron, etc.
Agree with tbone, the chargers are seldom of high quality. They may be 'good enough', but not much more. A few are real crap. Unless you DO have some decent tools you simply don't have a good way to find out.
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fun fact. Silent Submersion recently discontinued use of the LiFePO4 batteries that they were using in the Viper and UV-40. Many reported quick degradation of battery life and the packs failed. @victorzamora and I bought one that was exhibiting this behavior. It was found the stock charger was an utter POS and was the reason that the battery died. We purchased a new charger and the battery came back to life over time.... Suffice to say, all of the backup lights that I have purchased have had their chargers thrown in the trash immediately
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
We'll have to agree to disagree here. I love their lights and find the origins of the slander/libel against them to be a competitor who doesn't understand the engineering behind over-driving lights. If they're smart, they'll take advantage of the almost limitless heat sink provided by our underwater environment. It's not magic: it's science.
I don't remember ever using those items either. I do have quite the cache should anyone want one.
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@The Chairman we will have to agree to drop it. The science behind over driving is very simple, despite the near limitless heat sinking ability of our aquatic environment, the heads are not designed in such a way that it is utilized completely. Assuming that the emitters are producing light at their maximum binning efficiency despite overdriving, using boost drivers, and everything else that goes on in light heads is laughable. The engineering simply says it is not possible.
Dive Rite at least attempted to make a somewhat realistic claim with the EX35 by listing 80% of the linear light output, which is a lot closer than they have ever made before and is approaching plausible numbers.
The origin of this was made by a competitor, that is correct, but not the one you think. Light and Motion tested one of their lights several years ago along with many other manufacturers and was the start of this. Test results below. I understand this is an old light, however their engineering strategy has not changed and the exponential relationship between power and light output regardless of heat sinking ability remains unchanged with newer emitters
We Test Lights | 12 Watt LED Test and Review
hollis branded, but LM design.
We Test Lights | LED 25 Test and Review
for anyone who cares to read the science behind it. Of particular note with this is that the heat sinking of the driver is not in question here, however the emitter itself still produces considerable amount of heat inside of an air tight container with no air flow other than convection. This leads to minimal amounts of heat transfer through the lens and light head.
https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/XLampPulsedCurrent.pdf
Dive Rite at least attempted to make a somewhat realistic claim with the EX35 by listing 80% of the linear light output, which is a lot closer than they have ever made before and is approaching plausible numbers.
The origin of this was made by a competitor, that is correct, but not the one you think. Light and Motion tested one of their lights several years ago along with many other manufacturers and was the start of this. Test results below. I understand this is an old light, however their engineering strategy has not changed and the exponential relationship between power and light output regardless of heat sinking ability remains unchanged with newer emitters
We Test Lights | 12 Watt LED Test and Review
hollis branded, but LM design.
We Test Lights | LED 25 Test and Review
for anyone who cares to read the science behind it. Of particular note with this is that the heat sinking of the driver is not in question here, however the emitter itself still produces considerable amount of heat inside of an air tight container with no air flow other than convection. This leads to minimal amounts of heat transfer through the lens and light head.
https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/XLampPulsedCurrent.pdf
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