Letting non-certified kids use scuba gear in a pool

[Fat Daddy]

Begin rant

I own a pool store in SW FL and am amazed at the number of people who let their non-certified young kids breath off scuba gear sitting at the bottom of their pool. I've also worked in a hyperbaric chamber at Shands Hospital while going to school and have worked in the chamber with people who've suffered terrible lung expansion injuries. It's not safe to allow kids to do this.

My 13 yr old just did her pool work as part of her certification she's getting now. She's never taken a breath off a regulator at any depth until her pool work.

I actually have had some debates about the safety of letting your kids do this and have had people call their local dive store and have been told by some stores it's perfectly safe. Air expansion is not linear and the greatest expansion takes place in the last 6 ft of water. Back when I learned to dive in NJ in the 80's a local law enforcement officer had his young son die after taking a breath off scuba in 4 ft of water and then he stood up. Young kids aren't old enough to understand the danger, and I find parents look at their 12,000 gallon pool and think absolutely nothing can go wrong doing this.

My daughter has loved her lessons and course work so far and will take her checkout dives in Bonaire in about 10 days. While I know diving is a safe sport, sometimes things can go wrong. I'll do my best to keep her safe and encourage continued training and if something happens it would be devastating. If she died in my pool from an air embolism I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

End rant

Jason

 

[GrafCanuck]

One should always take safety precautions whether around or in water - period. I don't see how decompression issues could happen in a pool but drowning is another story. I will let the SB medical experts advise. I say DIVE safe and SWIM safe - always.

BTW - hope your family has a blast in Bonaire. Was there a few weeks ago. I wish I had been to Bonaire diving in my teens.

Cheers
Darrell

 

[Fat Daddy]

One should always take safety precautions whether around or in water - period. I don't see how decompression issues could happen in a pool but drowning is another story. I will let the SB medical experts advise. I say DIVE safe and SWIM safe - always.

BTW - hope your family has a blast in Bonaire. Was there a few weeks ago. I wish I had been to Bonaire diving in my teens.

Cheers
Darrell

Thanks Darrell. This will be our first trip there and everyone's very excited. We're staying 12 days.

It's lung expansion injuries that are the concern. If you take a full breath at 6 ft hold it and surface you can get seriously hurt or die.

Jason

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

It's not safe to allow kids to do this.

Agree, but......

When my dad was teaching me to dive in the 60's (mind you he was not a dive instructor - just a guy who learned the "proper" way to dive from a pamphlet that came with his scuba tank more than a decade earlier), he would toss a tank and reg in the deep end of the pool and have me swim down, take a few breaths then make an emergency "blow and go" swimming ascent. Time after time, rinse and repeat. My 7 year old self must have done that drill 50 times. I thought it fun. Now I know I likely dodged a bullet, but at least I was taught the reason for exhaling on ascent and was very comfortable doing it. .

Fast forward a bunch of decades and I take my then 7-year old son to a birthday pool party. The birthday boy's father (who I had never met before) has an Aluminum 80 on the bottom with an adapter and 4 second stages coming off the 1st stage. Twelve little kids with ZERO instruction are doing the dive down, breathe and surface game. Some of the other moms and dads there thought it looked like fun and were encouraging their little darlings to participate. I read that dad the riot act and told him that it was dangerous and why it was dangerous (including a short lesson in gas expansion laws, barotrauma, etc...) and advised his financial liability for the death of one of the children would be astronomical. That father told me in a very loud authoritative voice so that all the other parents could hear that I had no clue what I was talking about, that I was just plain stupid, and he told me to leave his house as "ignorant" people were not permitted on his property. My son wasn't very happy but we left. An hour later (apparently after he changed the tank out for a fresh one) a little 8 year old girl surfaced spitting up blood and was taken to the hospital. Thankfully she survived but the civil verdict against the father far exceeded the amount of his homeowner's liability insurance coverage. Plus the punitive damages against the father for "conscious disregard" of the safety of the children was not dischargeable in bankruptcy and he ended up losing his house. I guess stupid people weren't permitted on his property either.

I have no problem with having a young child breathe off a tank in a pool as long as you are right there with them and they are at least old enough to understand not to ever hold their breath. My rant is over. M

 

[Dan G]

Agree, but......

When my dad was teaching me to dive in the 60's (mind you he was not a dive instructor - just a guy who learned the "proper" way to dive from a pamphlet that came with his scuba tank more than a decade earlier), he would toss a tank and reg in the deep end of the pool and have me swim down, take a few breaths then make an emergency "blow and go" swimming ascent. Time after time, rinse and repeat. My 7 year old self must have done that drill 50 times. I thought it fun. Now I know I likely dodged a bullet, but at least I was taught the reason for exhaling on ascent and was very comfortable doing it. .

Fast forward a bunch of decades and I take my then 7-year old son to a birthday pool party. The birthday boy's father (who I had never met before) has an Aluminum 80 on the bottom with an adapter and 4 second stages coming off the 1st stage. Twelve little kids with ZERO instruction are doing the dive down, breathe and surface game. Some of the other moms and dads there thought it looked like fun and were encouraging their little darlings to participate. I read that dad the riot act and told him that it was dangerous and why it was dangerous (including a short lesson in gas expansion laws, barotrauma, etc...) and advised his financial liability for the death of one of the children would be astronomical. That father told me in a very loud authoritative voice so that all the other parents could hear that I had no clue what I was talking about, that I was just plain stupid, and he told me to leave his house as "ignorant" people were not permitted on his property. My son wasn't very happy but we left. An hour later (apparently after he changed the tank out for a fresh one) a little 8 year old girl surfaced spitting up blood and was taken to the hospital. Thankfully she survived but the civil verdict against the father far exceeded the amount of his homeowner's liability insurance coverage. Plus the punitive damages against the father for "conscious disregard" of the safety of the children was not dischargeable in bankruptcy and he ended up losing his house. I guess stupid people weren't permitted on his property either.

I have no problem with having a young child breathe off a tank in a pool as long as you are right there with them and they are at least old enough to understand not to ever hold their breath. My rant is over. M

What a horrible story, but thanks for sharing it.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Agree, but......

When my dad was teaching me to dive in the 60's (mind you he was not a dive instructor - just a guy who learned the "proper" way to dive from a pamphlet that came with his scuba tank more than a decade earlier), he would toss a tank and reg in the deep end of the pool and have me swim down, take a few breaths then make an emergency "blow and go" swimming ascent. Time after time, rinse and repeat. My 7 year old self must have done that drill 50 times. I thought it fun. Now I know I likely dodged a bullet, but at least I was taught the reason for exhaling on ascent and was very comfortable doing it. .

Fast forward a bunch of decades and I take my then 7-year old son to a birthday pool party. The birthday boy's father (who I had never met before) has an Aluminum 80 on the bottom with an adapter and 4 second stages coming off the 1st stage. Twelve little kids with ZERO instruction are doing the dive down, breathe and surface game. Some of the other moms and dads there thought it looked like fun and were encouraging their little darlings to participate. I read that dad the riot act and told him that it was dangerous and why it was dangerous (including a short lesson in gas expansion laws, barotrauma, etc...) and advised his financial liability for the death of one of the children would be astronomical. That father told me in a very loud authoritative voice so that all the other parents could hear that I had no clue what I was talking about, that I was just plain stupid, and he told me to leave his house as "ignorant" people were not permitted on his property. My son wasn't very happy but we left. An hour later (apparently after he changed the tank out for a fresh one) a little 8 year old girl surfaced spitting up blood and was taken to the hospital. Thankfully she survived but the civil verdict against the father far exceeded the amount of his homeowner's liability insurance coverage. Plus the punitive damages against the father for "conscious disregard" of the safety of the children was not dischargeable in bankruptcy and he ended up losing his house. I guess stupid people weren't permitted on his property either.

I have no problem with having a young child breathe off a tank in a pool as long as you are right there with them and they are at least old enough to understand not to ever hold their breath. My rant is over. M

Wow. I'm guessing his liability (or punitive damages) went up because you'd warned him and he didn't respond....

 

[happy-diver]

I know a guy that besides doing plenty of other uncertified stuff
has conducted kids in pools 10-12 year old kids older kids adults
even the parents of the kids before the kids, the parents trust the
the guy and perhaps more importantly they really trust their kids.

And the grandparents even trusted the kids and the grand kids
and the guy when they went in for some breathing in the pool too

but all these folks had the fortune of growing up with motorbikes
and skiing, all of them including jet, and fishing boats and surfing
and swimming and chainsaws and building and digging and tools
and cleaning up after the dog

and snorkelling

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Agree, but......

When my dad was teaching me to dive in the 60's (mind you he was not a dive instructor - just a guy who learned the "proper" way to dive from a pamphlet that came with his scuba tank more than a decade earlier), he would toss a tank and reg in the deep end of the pool and have me swim down, take a few breaths then make an emergency "blow and go" swimming ascent. Time after time, rinse and repeat. My 7 year old self must have done that drill 50 times. I thought it fun. Now I know I likely dodged a bullet, but at least I was taught the reason for exhaling on ascent and was very comfortable doing it. .

Fast forward a bunch of decades and I take my then 7-year old son to a birthday pool party. The birthday boy's father (who I had never met before) has an Aluminum 80 on the bottom with an adapter and 4 second stages coming off the 1st stage. Twelve little kids with ZERO instruction are doing the dive down, breathe and surface game. Some of the other moms and dads there thought it looked like fun and were encouraging their little darlings to participate. I read that dad the riot act and told him that it was dangerous and why it was dangerous (including a short lesson in gas expansion laws, barotrauma, etc...) and advised his financial liability for the death of one of the children would be astronomical. That father told me in a very loud authoritative voice so that all the other parents could hear that I had no clue what I was talking about, that I was just plain stupid, and he told me to leave his house as "ignorant" people were not permitted on his property. My son wasn't very happy but we left. An hour later (apparently after he changed the tank out for a fresh one) a little 8 year old girl surfaced spitting up blood and was taken to the hospital. Thankfully she survived but the civil verdict against the father far exceeded the amount of his homeowner's liability insurance coverage. Plus the punitive damages against the father for "conscious disregard" of the safety of the children was not dischargeable in bankruptcy and he ended up losing his house. I guess stupid people weren't permitted on his property either.

I have no problem with having a young child breathe off a tank in a pool as long as you are right there with them and they are at least old enough to understand not to ever hold their breath. My rant is over. M

Blimey, that's quite a story. Shame his arrogance usurped his ignorance.

 

[caruso]

I have no problem with having a young child breathe off a tank in a pool as long as you are right there with them and they are at least old enough to understand not to ever hold their breath.

Exactly how I feel. I did this with my girlfriend's son when he was around 12. Now he's 16 and he's a certified AOW/Nitrox diver.

They gotta start somewhere and sometimes a quick taste is all they need- but it's GOT to be one on one and they need to understand the basic rules. Nothing less is adequate.

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

Wow. I'm guessing his liability (or punitive damages) went up because you'd warned him and he didn't respond....

As I wasn't involved with the legal proceedings I never really found out what the factual basis for the punitive damages was. While I was interviewed by an insurance adjuster, I was never called to testify in deposition or trial. If I was prosecuting the guy I would have shown he was a certified diver and knew full well the consequences of his actions. That may have been all that was needed to show malice (= conscious disregard of safety) for punitives. If I had been called to testify I can't imagine what the jury would have brought back in terms of damages.