First Rebreather Purchase - Lots of Questions

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@silent running I checked out from responding but have been reading. My original intent was for those who dive rebreathers to give me their advice on why they like their unit and why they would suggest running it. I did not need anyone's advice on whether or not I should consider going the rebreather route - thats a decision I need to make once I have all the information Im looking for.

I do appreciate your response as well as several others on previous pages who answered the questions.
OK, I'll play.

I picked a Revo. Not doing epic dives every time, actually diving it very much recreationally. I can dump one scrubber and start the next weekend with all fresh scrubber without actually throwing away a bunch of scrubber. I was close to getting a KISS, but thought the electronics would be good to have. Yes, I like the Revo in hybrid mode. I feel I chose correctly. I tried some over the shoulder counterlungs and did not like them. I am too much of a head turner and they felt very confining. So longer hoses and back mounted counterlungs. The backmounted counter lungs initially didn't feel as good, didn't take long and they are fine. Don't even notice now. I also like the Revo for the minimal number of connections/seals. It is easy to build up and tear down for clean up. (One of the small brands I watched the youtube video of the buildup, it was excessively intricate. Too many things have to be fitted just right and lots of room for errors). Another reason for the Revo is travel, but I can't say how that works yet. I do plan to travel with it, but actions have not matched plans yet. I do have a trip on the books for later summer for the U-352, I will finally start traveling with it. It is rather light, expect to be adding lead. I only have the steel tanks, not the lightweight travel ones. See how that goes.

I hear the Revo has poor flood recovery. If I flood it that bad, I would not be trusting the cells or the scrubber anymore anyway, bailing out. So I find that argument against the Revo a bit pointless.

As for the others, they just didn't fit my wants as well. SF2 was nice, but was a bit niche and didn't feel it had as much support. I liked the counterlung design, but not the placement.
Kiss was on the short list, but lacked the electronics that I felt was a good idea.
Hollis was going through ownership changes and as a business looked shakey.
On paper the Liberty looked great. Right up to the point I looked one over and realized it was WAY too complex. Too much redundancy, back up on the back up. Too much stuff that could go wrong. But I do have a Golem gopro case and am really thinking about one of there BOVs. But the rebreather was a wishlist of every feature you can pack on and almost every box possible was checked off.
There are others, I honestly don't remember what made me pass on them.

Another was searching for an instructor. This can be worse than picking the rebreather. There is a local shop that was wanting to sell me a machine, and the owner could start teaching as soon as they reached xx hours. The minimum requirements for an instructor, no I wanted someone who really knew there stuff, not someone who just finished there own checklist. Open water training has been around so long now that it isn't hard to make someone an instructor. But rebreathers are a lot different. While there are plenty of things common between all of them, they are also very much manufacturer and model specific. Finding an instructor that really knows what they need to teach you is going to be better than an instructor that is still learning themselves. I got lucky and found a very well respected instructor that was in driving distance.

Of course that is me, and you are you and not me. You may be more sensitive to WOB and not mind front or shoulder counterlungs. That right there will make the revo much lower on your list and take stuff I dismissed and make them look very good.

As for try dives, do them. You will not learn everything possible. Ask to be around during build up and tear down as well. I found that some will do that off to the side without people around. This will be part of owning a rebreather. You can see how easy or hard it is to take care of it on a day to day basis. Or you may see what a pain it is.

Does that help?
 
@silent running I checked out from responding but have been reading. My original intent was for those who dive rebreathers to give me their advice on why they like their unit and why they would suggest running it. I did not need anyone's advice on whether or not I should consider going the rebreather route - thats a decision I need to make once I have all the information Im looking for.

I do appreciate your response as well as several others on previous pages who answered the questions.

here's the problem with trying to start a thread like that....
Unless the diver is in the same scenario as you are, their units may not be relevant.

Here's my story and I can promise you that my opinion of, and selection of my two rebreathers is completely worthless to you as you're trying to start your journey.

I have a Meg 2.7. Why do I have a Meg 2.7? It's on essentially permaloan from a buddy. It is a GREAT rebreather, but it is very much not ideal for the diving that I'm doing and if I was looking at purchasing a rebreather then I would not even have it on the list. I love it, it breathes great, it's a tank, I've done a lot of cool diving on it both in the ocean and in caves, but it wouldn't even be on the list if I was buying one. I have realized that while it breathes great, I hate gearing up with OTS counterlungs which makes it not ideal for boat diving. I actually sidemount because I need to sidemount, and it's a big backmount CCR so it's incredibly restrictive for my cave diving. Something like a SF2 would likely be a better choice for me based on wanting to get rid of the counterlungs and the ability to sidemount. The Liberty would also be on the list since it can be bought with bmcl's and it can switch to sidemount pretty readily.

I also have a Kisscat. This is basically an upgraded KISS sidekick that's made in Germany. Why do I have it? I needed a sidemount rebreather and the price was right. If I was buying or recommending a new unit, it wouldn't be on the list because I think sidemount rebreathers like the Sidewinder, Liberty, SF2 etc. are all better sidemount rebreathers.
The Kisscat/sidekick are essentially glorified stage bottles in the way they're rigged, but unlike the Liberty, they don't have both O2 and Dil onboard, and without spending $2k on a sphere, there is really no good way to get it on there. The SF2 is too long to deal with a sphere, even with as tall as I am, but it is an eCCR which I have come to prefer.
The sidewinder is not really a "sidemount" unit per se as it shares a lot more with a bmccr than a smccr, but because of that it is a great unit and despite being mccr, would be high up on my list if I was buying new.

There are many CCR divers that have similar stories, several that have shared on this thread. It doesn't mean that the units aren't great units, but it means that even though we would consider a unit we don't own to be better, we are diving the units we are diving because of other circumstances that made the decision for us. The points we were trying to make were to help start you down that path and make a more informed decision by identifying those other variables that are critically important to the decision making process.
 
I came back to diving after a long (20 yr) layoff, I knew I wanted to be on CCR for 50-60m wrecks but wanted simple, robust and cheap, given amount of gear I had to buy.

I decided on a KISS Classic because of the simplicity and lack of on board electronics. Got it for £1350 and love it.

Not as popular in UK anymore but self-maintenance is easy enough and very easy to mod and adapt to your preference.

Plus teaches you about how PPO2 works in differing situations.

Not travelled with it but have used it on wrecks and OHE in flooded mines where access can be a challenge but been fine so far.
 
I do have a trip on the books for later summer for the U-352, I will finally start traveling with it. It is rather light, expect to be adding lead. I only have the steel tanks, not the lightweight travel ones. See how that goes.

Hey BB, send me a PM. I *might* be able to help you out, if you're interested.

Sorry for cluttering this thread, but it appears your profile is set where I cannot PM you or even see your profile page.
 
You post was great but this part kind of missed the train
I hear the Revo has poor flood recovery. If I flood it that bad, I would not be trusting the cells or the scrubber anymore anyway, bailing out. So I find that argument against the Revo a bit pointless.
On a revo any water that gets into the exhale side of the loop is stuck in there. you can get maybe 1-1.5L of water in there before its getting pretty sketchy. Hence the "limited flood tolerance".

On something like a tbone's Meg 2.7 any water in the exhale side of the loop ends up in the exhale counterlung where gravity takes it directly to the overpressure valve/dump and its expelled. You can practically pour liters of water in there as long as the rate is somewhat modest and it all drains away before it ever gets to the sorb or the cells. This would be a very flood tolerant example.

An SF2 (for example) is intermediate between a revo and a meg in terms of flood tolerance. Yes there's a way to expel water from the exhale side. No it doesn't naturally seek that low point and drain.

For the OP... I have a meg2.7 and I like the flood tolerance aspect of it. At the same time the counterlungs are like pillows on my ears, and as backmounted units go its big and heavy. The electronics are rock solid and the HUD is one of the best smithers HUDs. It never sees to need service even through parts are readily available and everything is made from the toughest grades of aluminum and Delrin. I've been to >100m on it and the WOB is great.

I also have a kiss sidewinder which has terrible flood tolerance but at the same time is super low profile and very light weight. I like that unit too, even though it has only a fisher cable for electronics and its mCCR. Its a royal pita to configure for cold water cave diving on trimix. The kiss supplied DSV was meh so I had to replace that with a golem DSV.
 
@tbone1004
Local buddies are diving Revo as we do have a local instructor for that. We also have some Hollis and KISS instructors locally along with ISC. .

You also have great Prism 2 instruction and machine support local in Bellevue, and they also teach Inspiration if needed. There's also Trimix instruction up in BC for the Prism.
 
Hey BB, send me a PM. I *might* be able to help you out, if you're interested.

Sorry for cluttering this thread, but it appears your profile is set where I cannot PM you or even see your profile page.
I may have turned stuff off a little aggressively. Should work now, I opened stuff up.
 
No specific DSV pics though... any chance of some closeup pics of yours?

How about you bide your time with this a similar different one until I find my screwdriver man

full


1-16 T53016 Double breathing tube complete / breathing hose complete
Pos.
Parts no. designation Pos. Parts no. designation
1
R33934 Valve disc / valve disc 10 1252860 Circlip 25x1.2 DIN 472 / security ring
2 R33932 Inhalation valve seat / inhalation valve seat 11 R33933 Exhalation valve seat / exhalation valve seat
3 T12009 Protection ring 12 T52208 Wrinkle tube / corrugated pants
4 M20501 Clamping band 4.8x186 LG / cable tie 13 T52189 Connection black / connector black
5 T51527 Washer / washer 14 T51424 Mouthpiece / mouth piece
6 T51484 Handle / handle 14 T53330 Mouthpiece with headband / mouth piece with head strap
7 1318144 Screw / screw 15 T52190 Connection red / connector red
8th T52191 Housing / housing 16 T52238 O-ring / o-ring
9 T53042 Roller / roll
 
No specific DSV pics though... any chance of some closeup pics of yours?
what unit/hoses are your trying to use it on?

loop hose diameter is crazy variable
 
How about you bide your time with this a similar different one until I find my screwdriver man
Great stuff, thanks... no rush just what I need!
Don't want to derail this thread further, so maybe we should start a new one on effective rebreather DSV design considerations?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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