DIR- Generic What constitutes a Tech-1 dive?

[CptTightPants21]

You guys lost me somewhere. Mostly because I don't know the exact specifics of C1 and C2 so I am still trying to understand how this would factor into your dive count for T1. If I correctly understood the exchange above, then cave dives requiring deco-bottle + 21/35 can also be counted as T1 dives if you are counting towards qualifying for T2. If it is just towards T1 renewal, then not all of them need to be on 21.35. Some of your cave dives on 32% + deco bottle should also substitute for 21/35 cave dives?

Am I there or still shooting in the wind?

Cave 1 is basically intro to cave level. The ~60 min C1 dive at Ginnie on 32% would just begin register a deco obligation. It's the equivalent of sticking your console into the sand at 100ft and saying you are a deep diver. Cave 2 is full cave plus stage. I would say that if you are doing 1 or 2 stage dives at Ginnie and accruing 20+ minutes of deco that that should count as a Tech 1 dive.

The other aspect they were talking about was experience that should count towards preparing you for tech 2 vs a dive that should count for Tech 1 25 dive count. Using the example above, a 2 stage dive at Ginnie with 40-60 min of deco is definitely a T1 dive, but it barely breaks the 100ft depth and I would not count it in any way towards a preparation for Tech 2.

 

[helodriver87]

A C1 cave dive or a C2 cave dive?

If you are doing a 2.5hr C2 cave dive with a stage and significant deco in Ginnie I would say that is good enough to count as a T1 dive as well.

Long C2 dive. It might technically count, but it doesn't utilize anything new (to me) at the T1 level. You could probably count it, it just feels a bit questionable to me. If I wasn't C2 and did a long open water 32 dive with O2, I'd absolutely count it.

 

[rjack321]

Long C2 dive. It might technically count, but it doesn't utilize anything new (to me) at the T1 level. You could probably count it, it just feels a bit questionable to me. If I wasn't C2 and did a long open water 32 dive with O2, I'd absolutely count it.

That's why I said "good enough"

I have a slightly different expectations for a diver just trying to retain their T1 card vs a diver expecting to transition into T2 level diving. If you are having dig into your 32% in order to "count" the 24th or 25th dive I think in some circumstances you should be given the latitude to be considered recent and competent without any kind of formal refresher. Your first dive back probably shouldn't be on 18/45 with your max allowable 30mins of deco. But are if you have 200 recreational dives, 40 C2 dives (no deco in MX), 23 clearly T1 dives in the 120-160ft range, and a couple of North FL C2 dives on 32% that span the C2/T1 gap all in the last 3years? Yea you make the cut to me to renew your T1 card. You might want to think about having more >110ft trimix dives in the upcoming three years though because your skills probably aren't as sharp as they could be.

FWIW I do about 40-50 dives a year. I get in about 40 recreational, 50 trimix, and 50 cave dives in the 3 year renewal period. The trimix dives are on CCR and max of 100m. The cave dives are a mix of FL practice dives and original exploration dives in Canada and range from 30mins long to 5+hrs. I consider myself recent and competent to renew my T1 and C2 cards. In my mind, if you have to dig through your logbook to find the last qualifying dive you probably aren't as recent and current on your skills as you think you are. GUE doesn't formally define this, the renewal is 95% about making you have a moment of self reflection on where you stand skill-wise and only 5% about the card - since nobody really cares if you were to show an expired one.

 

[rjack321]

You guys lost me somewhere. Mostly because I don't know the exact specifics of C1 and C2 so I am still trying to understand how this would factor into your dive count for T1. If I correctly understood the exchange above, then cave dives requiring deco-bottle + 21/35 can also be counted as T1 dives if you are counting towards qualifying for T2. If it is just towards T1 renewal, then not all of them need to be on 21.35. Some of your cave dives on 32% + deco bottle should also substitute for 21/35 cave dives?

Am I there or still shooting in the wind?

C1 = no deco no trimix
C2 = deco on O2 but no trimix under this cert

Let say you have T1 and C2 but mostly do long 32% dives with stages and O2. Are you recent and competent to splash on a 160ft 18/45 +50% dive? By themselves no. In conjunction with other trimix dives? Maybe its a gray area.

If you are doing 2hrs at 85ft in Ginnie with a stage and 25-30mins of O2 deco in Ginnie (something C2 would certify you for) then you are on the fence whether - in your judgement - that dive should count towards renewing your T1. I think we all agree it could count - or it might not. But if your T1 renewal "requires" that dive to count then you might meet the minimums but really need to be upping your T1 dives to stay current in the upcoming 3 yrs.

A >100ft dive on 21/35 or 18/45 with accelerated deco clearly counts as T1 whether its in a cave or not. BUT if you are only C1 you aren't allowed to be doing deco in a cave so that would have to be an open water dive anyway. The confusion is arising because C2 is allowing you to rack up significant non-trimix deco at <100ft depths. Or you could be doing long OW scooter runs on 32% with big doubles and O2. Does that count as recent and relevant for T1? Sometimes it might depending on what else you've been doing - but proceed with caution.

There are no scuba police even in GUE. But we do expect you to 1) have the skills as evidenced by the card and 2) not have let those skills lapse through lack of use. The renewal is about #2

 

[ls23]

Naive question from someone who has only done Fundamentals so far: isn't a big part of the T1 skill set open water ascents? So are cave dives on which you just follow the profile on deco even relevant towards your T1 level experience?

 

[barth]

A dive with doubles ean32 and oxygen in open water is for me tech1. Because I wasn’t allowed to do that with fundamentals.

A dive with doubles ean32, stage ean32 and oxygen in open water is tech 2. I’m not allowed to do that because I’m not tech 2 certified.

Cave:

Doubles, bottomstage ean32 and oxygen is not a tech 1 dive.

Double 18 18/45, stage ean32, stage 18/45, stage ean50 and stage oxygen is a tech 1 dive. (Doubles + 4 stages)

Everything with trimix between 30 and 51 meter is a tech 1 dive in a cave.

 

[helodriver87]

Naive question from someone who has only done Fundamentals so far: isn't a big part of the T1 skill set open water ascents? So are cave dives on which you just follow the profile on deco even relevant towards your T1 level experience?

You're still cutting tables, doing gas switches, and holding stops. It's relevant, but probably shouldn't make up most of your experience if you're planning on taking T2 in open water. That's how it was explained to me when I asked.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Naive question from someone who has only done Fundamentals so far: isn't a big part of the T1 skill set open water ascents? So are cave dives on which you just follow the profile on deco even relevant towards your T1 level experience?

Which is why you are getting the grey area answers where they 'count', but they can't be the ONLY dives you have because depth and open water ascent do play a strong role in Tech 1 proficiency. Tech 1 is for one bottle and no more than 30 minutes of deco. It's tough to explain the logic on how a dive at Ginnie or Little River with 2 stages plus deco and 30-60 min of deco doesn't count as a Tech 1 dive.

Also, just so you know that most maps showing depth and distance of a cave are so good that using your estimated swim speed, breathing rate, and the average depth of the area you plan to swim you can run an extremely accurate deco profile. Also, as helodriver said-cutting tables, doing gas switches, and holding stops - all part of Tech 1.

 

[JohnnyC]

Not being a GUE, here's an outside perspective. If you're grasping at straws to try and decide whether or not a dive "counts," you're probably not diving enough or doing enough of those types of dives in the first place. Doing the minimum doesn't really sound like someone who should be doing the GUE thing.....

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Not being a GUE, here's an outside perspective. If you're grasping at straws to try and decide whether or not a dive "counts," you're probably not diving enough or doing enough of those types of dives in the first place. Doing the minimum doesn't really sound like someone who should be doing the GUE thing.....

In real world scenario ? Absolutely! In principle however, when an agency sets a minimum standard for anything then they need to put forth a very objective criteria.