When does a new diver become ‘advanced’!?

[Diving Dubai]

Regarding buddy check. Yes the Instructor was at fault, he/she should have made checks with you.

I dive each month with a group of friends, where we take a boat for a weekend. The 14 of us this weekend have a combined total of 19,000 dives. We still carry out buddy checks, although they are abbreviated because we know each others gear intimately. But still we do a check before we splash

As an "Advanced" or competent Diver I would suggest proficiency in the following skills

1. Being comfortable at the surface being able to self rescue, and deal with minor issues with gear or environment without being stressed or anxious

2. Having a good grasp of your correct weighting and being able to carry out weight checks and be self aware to gauge whether at teh end of a dive if you are under or over

3. Having decent buoyancy and trim - so being close to horizontal in the water, being able to hover and watch sea life with the minimum of movement. Be able to hold a safety stop, just using a visual reference (line or computer) with a maximum vertical deviation of 2'/600mm from intended depth.

4. Not sculling - not waving hands about to turn or to maintain balance in water.

5. Not getting task loaded by minor a inconvenience - for example, be able to clear a mask while diving without losing buoyancy - so remaining relaxed and in control with minor issues

6 Be able to carry out basic skills comfortably and smoothly, such as mask flood, mask remove and replace, reg remove and replace. All done slowly and smoothly - easy to practice at end of safety stop, and continually practice during your dive career especially after a break

7. As someone who dives in the ocean be able to use and shoot a dsmb comfortably

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

I can’t comment on being an “advanced” diver, but I would say that I felt like I started to get a clue by dive 20 or so. The advanced course helped a lot, in terms of reinforcing what I learned in the basic course, as well as introducing a few more concepts.

That’s 20+ dives in x < 6 months. My two cents...If someone isn’t diving on a regular basis, they are likely not building much (skill wise) upon the experience of their previous dives. They’re going to be lucky to tread water...as far as skill progression goes.

For someone with 20+ dives over multiple years (common for divers that I’ve run into)...I would expect progress to be slower. That being said, I recognize that I am not an “advanced” diver.

Gear check wise...I still check over my gear as thoroughly as the first time I went into the pool during my OW course. That includes spending time inspecting my gear at home prior to a trip.

I also watch my buddies do their gear check. I pay particular attention with new drysuit divers. I’ve helped two people that forgot to attach their drysuit inflation hose.

One point that I’m picky on, as well as other divers...do not proactively touch another divers gear. Ex. My gas. I check multiple times to make sure that the valve is turned completely in the right direction and that both regulators are breathing properly (verified with multiple breaths while looking at SPG). I don’t want someone that thinks they’re “doing me a solid” to turn my gas off.

As others said though...dive count isn’t going to directly correlate to skill progress. I recently ran into someone with 50+ dives that had difficulty putting their gear together.

 

[Gareth J]

I agree. According to my 14 years of diving, your former students doing detailed checks are the exception. All the OW courses I assisted on had detailed checks, over & over.
Just curious--I've only heard the BWRAF one. Do you use (another) one?

BAR

B - Buoyancy
A - Air
R - Releases

(And its written on your contents gauge - in those territories that use bar for pressure).

The other one, that preceeds the buddy check is SEEDS, which is dive (& lesson) planning and briefing.

S - Safety
E - Equipment
E - Exercises
D - Discipline
S - Signals

But SEEDS is more an instructor or dive leader reminder. As is REAP

R - review
E - encourage
A - assess
P - progression

A post dive exercise with a student.

 

[Storker]

I agree. According to my 14 years of diving, your former students doing detailed checks are the exception. All the OW courses I assisted on had detailed checks, over & over.

I still do a formal check because I don't trust myself not to mess up something some time. And if I'm diving with someone who isn't used to a long hose config, I use the pre-dive check including an S-drill to ensure that they know where their gas will come from if they need some from me. It's also nice to know what my buddy is carrying in their suit pockets.

Just curious--I've only heard the BWRAF one. Do you use (another) one?

During my CMAS 3* course, we used either top-to-bottom (Mask? Regs working? Suit valves working? etc. down to the fins) or bottom-to-top (Fins? Knife? Right thigh pocket contents? Left thigh pocket contents? etc. up to the mask) depending on the mood.

And since the title of my 3* textbook literally is "Advanced sport diving", my 3* cert of course makes me into an advanced diver

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

If someone isn’t diving on a regular basis, they are likely not building much (skill wise) upon the experience of their previous dives. They’re going to be lucky to tread water...as far as skill progression goes.

Reminds me of the time the late Ron Merker (Aquatic Center - Newport Beach) told me about the guy that walked into his shop saying he was an advanced diver. According to Ron, the guys exact words were, "I've been diving over 30 years and I thoroughly enjoyed it both times."

 

[wedivebc]

AND if I see someone touching my gear I will double check everything again. My biggest fear is that during a buddy check a buddy would mistake the valve knob direction and would accidentally turn the valve OFF some of my tanks have left hand valves so it is not entirely impossible to happen

I have never seen a left handed valve in a scuba application. Where would it be used?

 

[uncfnp]

I have never seen a left handed valve in a scuba application. Where would it be used?

Sidemount tanks.

 

[iamrushman]

I have never seen a left handed valve in a scuba application. Where would it be used?

the other side of doubles...

 

[TMHeimer]

Baranaby'sDad's assessment of 20 dives within 6 months has merit. After a few dives I realized on one dive that I was hovering looking at something without consciously doing so. Don't think that in itself made me "advanced", but of course you have to define advanced.

 

[almostDIR]

I have never seen a left handed valve in a scuba application. Where would it be used?

a left hand single valve or the left side one of the doubles valve assembly with the manifold hole plugged. they are used on the left hand side on sidemount tanks. changed them to some of my tanks because starting to learn sidemounting soon... it is pretty unpractical to change the tank valves back and forth all the time if doing single tank dives with the bp/w so some of the tanks stay with the left hand valves which I need to explain to the buddies before the dive so that they don't accidentally close the valve when doing buddy check.

I started to feel much improved as well at around the 20 dive mark... developing the basic buoyancy skills and awareness takes some time and that around 20 dives seems to be a good ballpark to starting feel comfortable in water and starting to be ready for more courses