Difference between PADI AOW and deep diver

[thewalrus]

I agree with your points skills wise. Call it virtual deco stop, call it "out-of-my-hole" stop and make it mandatory. Don't call it safety stop and make it mandatory. It has already been said that members of this forum are above average regarding skills, awareness and learning vigor.
But, out there, there will be someone trained with "mandatory safety stop" that will do as trained and potentially get hurt because of this nonsense, either by staying in water with low gas or by panicking because of missed "mandatory" stop.


I do it too. I don't mind being in water, either watching scenery or practicing buoyancy. And I usually overstay it. Just don't like it being "mandated".

Yeah - I see where you're coming from. And I think in part my comfort with the way the instruction occurred has to do with how abundantly clear the instructors made it that a safety stop in ordinary diving isn't mandatory. It's a 'nice to have' thing. It's something they recommend that you do. But there's no hard and fast medical evidence that it's required to be safe. And, of course, if you need to surface without one - you do it. Air always beats no-air.

They were also pretty clear in the instruction that it was really only for this dive that they required you to conduct it. Certainly take your point - calling it something else would probably have made it even clearer - I kind of like the "simulated deco stop" language. But at the same time, I think they also wanted to stress that they felt that safety stops were a good thing to do, and that you should feel encouraged to use in your every day diving. especially if you're going below 30 - 40 ft.

 

[TheGraveyardDiver]

I have yet to dive anywhere with an operation that requested to see a "Deep Diver" specialty card.
-Z

There's a couple of charters here in NC that "require" a deep cert. to dive with them past 60 feet. No matter that I've been diving for 20 years and can bring all 4 of my log books to show dives to 120+ feet, they don't care. Most likely it's a liability precaution to help keep the slime bag lawyers serving papers off their doorsteps. I replied to one of their facebook posts that they had slots to fill on their boat, but no dice as I didnt' have a "PADI Deep Cert" to dive to their 80 feet.

"My client was an idiot and only had 1 dive (in a pool) and you let him dive to 80 feet, so you own my client's widow $281,322,912,567 million dollars because you were grossly negligent."

Same thing with the "We don't fill 6351 cylinders older than 1989" BS.

Happens every day in America's sue-eager society.

 

[Zef]

There's a couple of charters here in NC that "require" a deep cert. to dive with them past 60 feet. No matter that I've been diving for 20 years and can bring all 4 of my log books to show dives to 120+ feet, they don't care. Most likely it's a liability precaution to help keep the slime bag lawyers serving papers off their doorsteps. I replied to one of their facebook posts that they had slots to fill on their boat, but no dice as I didnt' have a "PADI Deep Cert" to dive to their 80 feet.

"My client was an idiot and only had 1 dive (in a pool) and you let him dive to 80 feet, so you own my client's widow $281,322,912,567 million dollars because you were grossly negligent."

Same thing with the "We don't fill 6351 cylinders older than 1989" BS.

Happens every day in America's sue-eager society.

Do they require a deep dive cert or just AOW? How do they deal with non-PADI divers who may have training under an agency that does not provide a specific deep dive certification but it is included as part of other training/certification?

-Z

 

[Erich S]

Think all one needs is AOW.

 

[Snoweman]

There's a couple of charters here in NC that "require" a deep cert. to dive with them past 60 feet. No matter that I've been diving for 20 years and can bring all 4 of my log books to show dives to 120+ feet, they don't care. Most likely it's a liability precaution to help keep the slime bag lawyers serving papers off their doorsteps. I replied to one of their facebook posts that they had slots to fill on their boat, but no dice as I didnt' have a "PADI Deep Cert" to dive to their 80 feet.

"My client was an idiot and only had 1 dive (in a pool) and you let him dive to 80 feet, so you own my client's widow $281,322,912,567 million dollars because you were grossly negligent."

Same thing with the "We don't fill 6351 cylinders older than 1989" BS.

Happens every day in America's sue-eager society.

Can I have the name of that lawyer???

The dive shop that I got my OW cert took me to 80+ feet for my cert dive and subsequent fun dive. Shortly thereafter, I went to Belize for whale shark diving at 90+ feet.

I'm going to be a billionaire!!!

 

[Chavodel8en]

Can I have the name of that lawyer???

The dive shop that I got my OW cert took me to 80+ feet for my cert dive and subsequent fun dive. Shortly thereafter, I went to Belize for whale shark diving at 90+ feet.

I'm going to be a billionaire!!!

One little drawback to this plan -- it would be your SURVIVORS who would be billionaires.

 

[Snoweman]

One little drawback to this plan -- it would be your SURVIVORS who would be billionaires.

Can I be a half a billionaire for pain and suffering incurred due to "endangerment"?

 

[BlueTrin]

One little drawback to this plan -- it would be your SURVIVORS who would be billionaires.

Yea right, if you think your dive shop can get this money ... even their insurance will fight and your survivors are unlikely to see the money soon

Or is it more efficient in the US ?

 

[Zef]

Yea right, if you think your dive shop can get this money ... even their insurance will fight and your survivors are unlikely to see the money soon

Or is it more efficient in the US ?

If in the US and the dive shop/ dive operation owner is smart they will have their business incorporated or form it as an LLC...that way when they close shop due to a staggering lawsuit that their insurance doesn't cover the owner will not be personally liable for the settlement.

-Z

 

[Bob DBF]

There's a couple of charters here in NC that "require" a deep cert. to dive with them past 60 feet. No matter that I've been diving for 20 years and can bring all 4 of my log books to show dives to 120+ feet, they don't care.

First of all, I feel your pain. I felt the same way about having dived for 17 years, some of which are considered tech dives now, and not being allowed to dive off a boat or get my tank filled at an increasing number of shops just because I didn't have an OW card. Times change and I could tilt a windmills, or just get the stupid card. More recently I picked up AOW and Deep just because I was traveling and didn't need to go through the same BS again.

The point of the requirement is so the operator is not deciding whether you are qualified to make the dive, rather they are just looking at the fact that you are certified to make the dive. In court it can be said that the decision the diver was able to do the dive rests on the person who certified him.

The boats I go on in SoCal want at least an OW cert number on the sign in sheet, and to see a Nitrox card before they give a Nitrox fill. They give a boat briefing, then a dive briefing at each site and detail anything that will give you a timeout. Solo and same ocean buddy are not prohibited, and, in fact, not mentioned as I recall.

Not to say the crew dosen't evaluate divers, they do want to know where trouble is most likely to come from. I have heard them give advice to divers, and a few times I have been asked to dive with someone they were concerned about, but never saw them decide a certified diver didn't have the skills to make a dive.

I have seen the boat divert to a benign site because of the number of rookies aboard, 'cause one of the DM's apologized to me about the situation. There is more than one way to skin a cat, although the cat never likes it.


Bob