E9791 stamped out with XXXXs when cylinder passed hydro

[2airishuman]

Someone just offered me for sale a PST HP120 that had a fresh hydro. The hydro place had stamped XXXXs across the "E9791" and stamped "3AA" just above.

The seller is someone I know and I don't have any reason to doubt her story. The RIN checks out, and they did the same thing to a PST HP80 she had hydro'd at the same time.

There was a brief period of time when hydro shops were authorized and required to stamp out the exemption that predated the DOT-3AL standard once the standard was adopted, but that was another matter entirely.

Anyone heard of this? I encouraged her to talk to the hydro shop again. It's not really my problem but I would expect that whoever buys these cylinders will have trouble with fills and hydros in the future.

 

[akdeepdiver]

That is not authorized as per 49 CFR. The only cylinders that were authorized the overstamp are Aluminum cylinders that had a current/valid Special Permit (SP/E 6498, 7042, 8107, 8364, 8422) when the 3AL specification was incorporated into 49CFR in 1982 (49CFR173.23). Even then, the orriginal SP/E markings were not supposed to be Xed out. Also, a strict reading of 49CFR means that Xing out the SP/E markings condems that cylinder. 49CFR180.250(i)(vii)(2).

My recomendation is for the owner to go to the Hydro shop and buy her a new tank. The owner also has a good argument for reporting them to DOT enforcement for a violation of regulations. If you happen to know the shop, I would ask you post thier name for others to avoid using them.

 

[Wookie]

I’m finding more and more hydro facilities hiring tank monkeys instead of trained technicians. Especially those who mainly deal with scuba and scba and fire extinguishers.

 

[rjack321]

Anyone heard of this? I encouraged her to talk to the hydro shop again. It's not really my problem but I would expect that whoever buys these cylinders will have trouble with fills and hydros in the future.

Yes she will have trouble with fills immediately because those cylinders were condemned (apparently by accident or ignorance) and cannot be filled in commerce anymore.

 

[2airishuman]

My recomendation is for the owner to go to the Hydro shop and buy her a new tank. The owner also has a good argument for reporting them to DOT enforcement for a violation of regulations. If you happen to know the shop, I would ask you post thier name for others to avoid using them.

I don't want to end up casting aspersions so I'm not going to post that information publicly.

SB members in the MN/WI area who are in the process of selecting a hydro shop are welcome to ask for advice via PM. Just like Santa Claus, I have a list of who is naughty and nice. I like a safety oriented, conservative hydro shop. I don't like a hydro shop that needlessly condemns perfectly good cylinders out of ignorance.

 

[akdeepdiver]

Any chance you have the ability to take a picture of the Xed out markings and email it to me? That way I can add it to my “what not to do” slides I use when teaching hydrotesters?

 

[scubafanatic]

That is not authorized as per 49 CFR. The only cylinders that were authorized the overstamp are Aluminum cylinders that had a current/valid Special Permit (SP/E 6498, 7042, 8107, 8364, 8422) when the 3AL specification was incorporated into 49CFR in 1982 (49CFR173.23). Even then, the orriginal SP/E markings were not supposed to be Xed out. Also, a strict reading of 49CFR means that Xing out the SP/E markings condems that cylinder. 49CFR180.250(i)(vii)(2).

My recomendation is for the owner to go to the Hydro shop and buy her a new tank. The owner also has a good argument for reporting them to DOT enforcement for a violation of regulations. If you happen to know the shop, I would ask you post thier name for others to avoid using them.

I've got a total of 16 hot dipped galvanized steels (PST and Worthington) and it's impossible to replace them as both brands stopped selling them or went bankrupt years ago, so it's not as easy as convincing a LDS to buy new ones, and that wouldn't be easy either. (I don't consider the Faber ones to be comparable to PST/Worthington)

 

[Nathan Doty]

Well, ultimately you only have to convince a judge that person A destroyed property belonging to person B. If the dive shop took a serviceable tank and made it unusable, there've caused damage and need to correct it. Either by paying to replace it or physically replacing it.

Small claims costs about $25 to file.

 

[OkByMe]

That is not authorized as per 49 CFR. The only cylinders that were authorized the overstamp are Aluminum cylinders that had a current/valid Special Permit (SP/E 6498, 7042, 8107, 8364, 8422) when the 3AL specification was incorporated into 49CFR in 1982 (49CFR173.23). Even then, the orriginal SP/E markings were not supposed to be Xed out. Also, a strict reading of 49CFR means that Xing out the SP/E markings condems that cylinder. 49CFR180.250(i)(vii)(2).

My recomendation is for the owner to go to the Hydro shop and buy her a new tank. The owner also has a good argument for reporting them to DOT enforcement for a violation of regulations. If you happen to know the shop, I would ask you post thier name for others to avoid using them.

I had 3 E6498 cylinders eddy tested, hydro'ed and re-certified as 3AL. the stamped it just above E-6498 marking. They did not alter or obliterate the original markings in any way... They are NOT to this unless the cylinders fails a mandated test.

 

[OkByMe]

Looks like the RIN shop misread the text and condemned the cylinder.... notice all the XXX reference in (e) which is used to indicate a variable in the string which may appear on the cylinder. Looks like the facility owes a replacement if it was not actually condemed.

Here is the re-certification's requirements: CFR 49/173.23.c
(c) After July 2, 1982, a seamless aluminum cylinder manufactured in conformance with and for use under DOT special permit (SP) or exemption (E) 6498, 7042, 8107, 8364 or 8422 may be continued in use if marked before or at the time of the next retest with either the specification identification “3AL” immediately above the special permit or exemption number, or the DOT mark (e.g., DOT 3AL 1800) in proximity to the special permit or exemption marking.

(d) Cylinders (spheres) manufactured and marked under DOT special permit (SP) or exemption (E) 6616 prior to January 1, 1983, may be continued in use if marked before or at the time of the next retest with the specification identification “4BA” near the special permit or exemption marking.

(e) After October 1, 1984, cylinders manufactured for use under special permit (SP) or exemption (E) 6668 or 8404 may be continued in use, and must be marked “DOT-4LXXXYY” (XXX to be replaced by the service pressure, YY to be replaced by the letters “AL”, if applicable) in compliance with Specification 4L (§178.57 of this subchapter) on or before January 1, 1986. The “DOT-4LXXXYY” must appear in proximity to other required special permit or exemption markings.


Here is the actual condemnation rules: CFR 49/180.205.F

(2) When a cylinder must be condemned, the requalifier must -
(i) Stamp a series of X's over the DOT specification number and the marked pressure or stamp “CONDEMNED” on the shoulder, top head, or neck using a steel stamp;
(ii) For composite cylinders, securely affix to the cylinder a label with the word “CONDEMNED” overcoated with epoxy near, but not obscuring, the original cylinder manufacturer's label; or
(iii) As an alternative to the stamping or labeling as described in this paragraph (i)(2), at the direction of the owner, the requalifier may render the cylinder incapable of holding pressure.
(3) No person may remove or obliterate the “CONDEMNED” marking. In addition, the requalifier must notify the cylinder owner, in writing, that the cylinder is condemned and may not be filled with hazardous material and offered for transportation in commerce where use of a specification packaging is required.