Cardiologist said no

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The doctor is looking out for you. Five years ago there was a death in our dive group in Belize. Turns out this 67 year lied on his medical form and was actually waiting for heart valve replacement surgery. It's a tragedy that never should have occurred - he and his wife both knew he should not have been diving. I can tell you that this horrible experience affected a lot more than the diver and his family. Please don't let your ego tell you if you are fit to dive.
 
Sorry for being late to the party here. First of all, you should get medical advice regarding diving from a physician who understands diving physiology and who has had the opportunity to thoroughly evaluate your personal history, speak with you, examine you, and review your test results. Take any other advice with a grain of salt -- and that includes mine as all I know is what you have mentioned in this thread.

I will speak in sweeping generalities. Whether or not to dive with underlying coronary artery disease is based on several factors -- exercise capacity, heart muscle function, evidence of a limitation of blood supply to your heart, and a personal risk/benefit decision by the diver. Again, IN GENERAL, if someone has a history of heart disease requiring stents or bypass surgery they can dive recreationally if they have good exercise tolerance (defined as reaching 13 METS on treadmill testing or the ability to sustain 6.5 METS for 20-25 minutes), have normal heart muscle function (left ventricular ejection fraction on echocardiography of > 50%), and no evidence of limitation to blood flow or significant exercise induced rhythm disturbances on exercise testing (I would not consider your two presumably PVCs on stress testing as significant). This having been said, divers with coronary artery disease are at an increased risk of heart attach and even death while scuba diving compared to the general population but this increase risk is quite small if the above criteria are met.

I would recommend you contact Divers Alert Network and ask for a referral to a diving physician in your area, preferably a cardiologist with knowledge of diving, and let that physician go over your individual case in detail. Scuba diving is a wonderful sport and, if you can do it safely, I would welcome you to our "club" with open arms. However, there is nothing down there worth dying for so see a diving physician and have a complete evaluation followed by a frank discussion.

Just my 2 cents.

Douglas Ebersole, MD
Interventional Cardiology, Watson Clinic LLP
Director, Structural Heart Program Lakeland Regional Health
Cardiology Consultant, Divers Alert Network
IANTD and TDI CCR Trimix Instructor
 
remind the doc that just being alive does not mean you are living life.

A profound truth right there. Or as I've said "you can't be so afraid of dying that you never really live".

OP, IMO/experience, 1st hand observation and reading about diving deaths of senior divers; senior divers seem to do pretty well if they started diving young and stayed actively diving into their senior years. This year is 51 years since my 1st OW dive in 1968 there was a 5years span in my late 40'-early 50's were my diving slacked way off but I stayed in shape, mostly. Unlike you I've yet to have a heart attack and my BP is good. My GP knows little about diving but sees no problem since as she said "you've been doing it since you were a kid". Which is my point.

Your MD is probably giving you their best advice and it my very well be correct. This I say with regret as I know how you feel about "..wanting to get down there". A half loaf is better than none, I'd enjoy snorkeling in tropical waters if that's all I could do. If I were you I would contact DAN as many have advised and any MD they recommend. However, if I were you I would also impose depth limits on myself. Most places >30FSW is generally where you'll find the most and varied life and as a bonus you can spend as much time as you can stand at those depths.
Here's a link:

Rhode Islander dies after diving by Dry Salvages

Maximo Arias, 65, of Warwick, Rhode Island, was diving with three others, authorities said, when sometime after the divers hit the water, the group lost track of Arias. When they found him, he was unresponsive in the water.

I have no idea who this poor soul was, how long he'd been diving what kind of shape he was in. The Dry Salvage are 60fsw. One can dive shallow as it is mostly a sheer drop to the bottom, like a wall dive.

My plan is if I have a heart attack I'm done diving, hanging up the regulator. Unless someone offers me a free trip to Micronesia I'll be snorkeling.

Good luck to you hope it works out for the best for you. Also I hope something in this thread helps you to decide what to do.
 
Sorry for being late to the party here. First of all, you should get medical advice regarding diving from a physician who understands diving physiology and who has had the opportunity to thoroughly evaluate your personal history, speak with you, examine you, and review your test results. Take any other advice with a grain of salt -- and that includes mine as all I know is what you have mentioned in this thread.

I will speak in sweeping generalities. Whether or not to dive with underlying coronary artery disease is based on several factors -- exercise capacity, heart muscle function, evidence of a limitation of blood supply to your heart, and a personal risk/benefit decision by the diver. Again, IN GENERAL, if someone has a history of heart disease requiring stents or bypass surgery they can dive recreationally if they have good exercise tolerance (defined as reaching 13 METS on treadmill testing or the ability to sustain 6.5 METS for 20-25 minutes), have normal heart muscle function (left ventricular ejection fraction on echocardiography of > 50%), and no evidence of limitation to blood flow or significant exercise induced rhythm disturbances on exercise testing (I would not consider your two presumably PVCs on stress testing as significant). This having been said, divers with coronary artery disease are at an increased risk of heart attach and even death while scuba diving compared to the general population but this increase risk is quite small if the above criteria are met.

I would recommend you contact Divers Alert Network and ask for a referral to a diving physician in your area, preferably a cardiologist with knowledge of diving, and let that physician go over your individual case in detail. Scuba diving is a wonderful sport and, if you can do it safely, I would welcome you to our "club" with open arms. However, there is nothing down there worth dying for so see a diving physician and have a complete evaluation followed by a frank discussion.

Just my 2 cents.

Douglas Ebersole, MD
Interventional Cardiology, Watson Clinic LLP
Director, Structural Heart Program Lakeland Regional Health
Cardiology Consultant, Divers Alert Network
IANTD and TDI CCR Trimix Instructor

Now I can see why everyone was waiting for Dr. Ebersole's reply, as his answer is most helpful in making a good risk assessment!! I've managing risk fairly well most of my life, and I think that learning the art of managing risk is a life skill that should be taught throughout all formal and informal schooling. However, there's usually a dearth of reliable and useful information available from which to make much more than a guess, unless you want to devote more time than it is sometimes worth. Why so hard? Those without this skill are usually the ones offering up the advice, which often is either deficient, misleading, irrelevant, and obscures true gems like this one post. I have a few questions though to expand this answer just a bit, and then some background and opinions from me. But first, why his answer was significantly correct:

I found three articles that cover the METS requirements:
Achieving an Exercise Workload of =10 METS Predicts a Very Low Risk of Inducible Ischemia
T
his first full article covers just how important this is, in predicting the risks and also in improving your METS

Determining Heart Rates from MET Intensities
This covers a way to do the work so that you can use the heart rate to determine what your useful METS is in training.

Just from these articles and a few more, it is obvious to me that you should be able to KNOW that you can meet the guidelines he laid out. METS is extremely important, diving or not. I'd still like to know the effects of depth on cardiac health when virtually at rest, albeit at 90 feet.

Q - What are the reduction ratios various functionalities at different depths? Obviously, there's a huge difference in an experienced diver on a drift dive, trying to relax enough to end the dive with more air than the divemaster (>50 minutes w/reserve), vs. a new diver, scared close to panic, hunting for lobsters, actively fighting a current, or being actively chased. Yes, you want reserve capacity when you need it. But even at 50% o2 efficiency, an athlete is going to deplete most of his air in 15 minutes or less if swimming fast at depth. And since it take 4x the energy to go twice as fast, I'd get there half as fast, or use just twice the air. I guess I'm asking for the fitness aspect importance for CAD patients, and what aspects are at risk, if less fit.

Q - OTOH, how much less efficient are the cardiac arteries at 90ft? With a very low use of o2 at 90 ft, totally relaxed, ejection fraction shouldn't be much of a factor. ? But If stung badly, or a moray eel reaches for your hand or face, your going to panic for at least a few seconds, which adds a lot of stress and constriction, along with a good dose of adrenaline. Those that handle stress well, (and didn't get bitten), will likely be relatively unaffected. Those that don't relax though, are not going to have a good day and obviously would be stressing their hearts.

SCUBA vs snorkeling: I got into SCUBA after many years of snorkeling, mostly with NO partner. I'd do the stupid, worthless and dangerous hyperventilate to get my co2 higher, and o2 from 99% to 99.5%. Then I'd dive to 20-30 feet, and surface quickly when the urge to breath was too much. When in Cozumel once when I couldn't get to a good snorkeling site, they convinced me to do a shore dive. I quickly found that it was so much easier than the type of snorkeling I was doing, I'd never choose to free-dive again. In a few years, about 50 dives and certified open water, I'm now expert enough to think that know all I need to, and get myself into serious difficulty. Luckily I will likely always have a divemaster to try to limit that risk. Although I'm not stupid, my freediving by myself without understanding the co2 / o2 saturation factors, far exceed the risks I now take, SCUBA diving with heart disease.

In my case, although I've had two drug eluting stents, the two MI's I had, did minimal damage. I'm 71, my EF is still 55%-60, and slight occlusions haven't changed in over a decade. OTOH, I'm slightly out of shape right now, which could be remedied in a few months. So, I'd really like to know what effect that has, physiologically when diving. How much does being "out of shape", affect the risk for CAD patients? I think the METS articles I've included cover just how important this is--KNOW what your METS are, before you or I dive.
 
Really get checked by a doc who knows diving.

In 2015 I had a stent put in to open a 100% blocked, left circumflex artery. I was experiencing a general bad feeling all over for a few months and pain in my right shoulder and elbow with exertion.

A month after the stent I had a second nuclear stress test and a third at 2 years. All good. I also got back to exercising and run 3 or 4, 5ks a week now.

Basically what was key was that I never had a heart attack. There was no muscle damage and flow was restored with the stent. If you never had a heart attack your heart may be just fine. Just make sure the pipes stay clear. Take your asprin and statins, exercise, and eat right. You know, all the no fun stuff.

Your doc may be concerned there is damage because of the PVC'S but in reality, most people have them every now and then. But because they showed with exertion, they may have raised eyebrows.

Get checked by a diving doc and you might get the answer you want us all to give you. I did.

Good luck.
 
DaaBoss -- Thanks for the kind words. The 13 MET threshold comes from exercise physiology. As you alluded to, scuba diving is usually very relaxing and if you are getting a lot of exercise from it, you are doing it wrong. :) However, stuff happens! Currents get strong, wind and waves pick up, you can find yourself on the surface a long way from the boat or shore, etc. 13 METS is the equivalent of swimming against a one knot current for 20 minutes or so. That's how that value was chosen as it was felt that this was a reasonable level of fitness for recreational diving. Honestly, most scuba divers WITHOUT heart disease cannot reach 13 METS on treadmill testing (12 minutes on a standard Bruce protocol). That is why the idea of 6.5 METS for 20-25 minutes arose. From an exercise physiology standpoint, if you can hit 13 METS at peak exercise you should be able to sustain 1/2 of that (6.5 METS) for 20-25 minutes. With that in mind if you can walk 2 miles in 20 minutes you are probably fit enough for usual recreational diving.

One comment on your snorkeling experience. What you were doing by hyperventilating prior to free diving was LOWERING, not raising, your carbon dioxide. Your oxygen level doesn't change with hyperventilation.

Our trigger to breathe is NOT falling levels of oxygen but rising levels of carbon dioxide. By "blowing off" carbon dioxide you can stave off the urge to breathe longer on a breath hold dive as it will take longer for your carbon dioxide level to rise to the point that you feel the urge to breathe since you start at a much lower level. The problem is that you are metabolizing oxygen while this is happening. The worst case scenario is your oxygen levels fall to such a low level that you lose consciousness though you never feel the urge to breathe because you had lowered your carbon dioxide level so low prior to the dive. This is compounded by the fact that depth keeps PO2 up even though FIO2 (fraction of oxygen) is dropping. As you ascend in the latter part of a breath hold dive you are not only continuing to metabolize the oxygen in that single breath hold, but the PO2 is dropping as you move shallower. This is the mechanism of "shallow water blackout" in free diving. The bottom line -- never hyperventilate before free diving and always free dive with a buddy.

Just another 2 cents.
 
I appreciate any response good or not in my favor.
I am 66 years old. I had 2 stints put in my heart in 1995. I had quite smoking 3 years before that and had started going to the gym.
I walk miles at work every day. I go to the gym 3 times a week. I can swim freestyle in my pool 100 yards with no problem. I am 5’ 8” tall and weigh 174 lbs.
And hate to be told no, and be told I can not do something.
I went to the Bahamas snorkeling. The only thing that went thru my mind was I wanted to be down there. The water was so clear and so much more was just 20’ farther down.
That is who I am
I went to my cardiologist to get an Ok to learn to scuba dive. I took the nuclear, MRI, ultrasound, blood tests and treadmill exam. MRI was good, ultrasound was good, blood test were good. I lasted 13 minutes on the treadmill which he said was great.The only thing he saw was in that 13 minutes my heart missed 2 beats. He told me no that I should not do this. For as much as I do not want question his knowledge. I DO.
I am where I am today because I stay active.
I am looking for opinions from the knowledge with in this forum good or bad. Many of you are professionals in this field and I would appreciate your response good or bad.
Thank You for taking the time to read this.

James...

You could get a second opinion/third/fourth opinion...you could go ahead and do all the diving you want with no opinion...you need no-ones approval...that's if you're already certified...if you're not yet certified...you do need a physicians sign-off...if you can't answer the tick boxes on your registration form with a no...

As has been said many times...there are no scuba police...I'm seventy...healthy/fit/non smoker/non drinker...no-one asks...and a ''professional'' has never said...NO...and I 've never had any health reason/restriction requiring a physicians authorization...

Having said that...with your health/smoking history...you've been told by a professional...the two stints in your heart weren't placed there because you didn't need them...and to add a slight correction to your narrative...where you are today...has nothing to do with you currently being active...you are the result of the activities of your past...

If you're stopped by the police...and the officer is pointing his gun at you...you're asked to lie face down...with your hands behind your head...are you going to say...''thanks for the advice...but I'd rather stand''...or better yet...can I get a second opinion from your partner...

This is only scuba diving...

W...
 
If you're stopped by the police...and the officer is pointing his automatic at you...you're asked to lie face down...with your hands behind your head...are you going to say...''thanks for the advice...but I'd rather stand''...or better yet...can I get a second opinion from your partner...
Aside from being a horrible analogy, it is technically incorrect.....the handguns, and many/most if the rifles, are semi-automatics, not automatics.
 

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