Types of kicking

[dmaziuk]

No rays didn't change physical. They adapt with technique. There is no way around physical. If your kick divert water movement downward, you will kick up silt. Same for rays

Thank you for spelling my point out for @tursiops

Swimmer's flutter kicks is small amplitude whip with entire leg. Add proper ankle stretch and trim, and it will direct the water back, not down. Of course if you do it an inch above a bed of super-extra fine talcum powder, it'll raise silt, but 6" above a regular sandy bottom it won't lift much more muck than a ray does.

IME all those "modified" techniques, OTOH, work great in perfectly still water. Open sea with a bit of a surge: they only do something if you're drifting with the current.

 

[tursiops]

Thank you for spelling my point out for @tursiops

Swimmer's flutter kicks is small amplitude whip with entire leg. Add proper ankle stretch and trim, and it will direct the water back, not down. Of course if you do it an inch above a bed of super-extra fine talcum powder, it'll raise silt, but 6" above a regular sandy bottom it won't lift much more muck than a ray does.

IME all those "modified" techniques, OTOH, work great in perfectly still water. Open sea with a bit of a surge: they only do something if you're drifting with the current.

@dmaziuk Are you a cave diver?

 

[The Chairman]

Open sea with a bit of a surge: they only do something if you're drifting with the current.

If you don't really have them mastered: yes. If you want to experience some current, come dive the Eye or the Ear at Ginnie Springs with me. Please don't flutter kick in there.

There are many, many ways to defeat currents. Kicking against them is a last resort.

 

[dmaziuk]

@dmaziuk Are you a cave diver?

No and I have no intention to become one ever, thankyouverymuch.

 

[BlueTrin]

After reading the subject I had to check my browser, thought I went on a martial arts forum or a hot headed thread where people kicking each other arses metaphorically.

 

[Jcp2]

Using the upper leg for a flutter kick comes from snorkeling. One reason why new divers do this. Or the modified open-water-student flutter kick as mentioned before by @wetb4igetinthewater - the bicycle kick.

Below the surface, one shouldn't use the upper legs. The relatively large muscles in the upper leg produce a lot of CO2, which increases air consumption. Using the upper legs also creates a constant rolling of the body, which doesn't do your trim any good.

What's missing from the article is the most important part of the frogkick: the glide phase in between two kicks. Doing nothing, just gliding through the water. Less CO2 production. Lower air consumption. And much easier to cover larger distances compared to a flutter kick.

And this is Open Water course level. Fortunately there are a lot of instructors here on SB that teach proper finning techniques during OWD. I always cringe when I hear an instructor say to start a stroke from the hips.....yeah, that's how you create strokes

This upper leg not being used in proper kicking just isn’t physiologically possible. What muscles flex and extend the lower leg? Quads and hamstrings. Where are they located? In the thigh. Maybe what you really want to say is that there is no active flexion and extension of the hips? But even then, the hip muscles are under some tension to keep the hips stable as a force is applied against the lower leg.

 

[Miyaru]

This upper leg not being used in proper kicking just isn’t physiologically possible. What muscles flex and extend the lower leg? Quads and hamstrings. Where are they located? In the thigh. Maybe what you really want to say is that there is no active flexion and extension of the hips? But even then, the hip muscles are under some tension to keep the hips stable as a force is applied against the lower leg.

That's a more precise explanation, and I agree. No up/down movements of the upper legs while finning.

 

[dmaziuk]

After reading the subject I had to check my browser, thought I went on a martial arts forum or a hot headed thread where people kicking each other arses metaphorically.

Those ain't no kicks. These are the kicks:

 

[Ayisha]

Thank you for spelling my point out for @tursiops

...IME all those "modified" techniques, OTOH, work great in perfectly still water. Open sea with a bit of a surge: they only do something if you're drifting with the current.

The modified DIR flutter and modified frog kicks are for environments with up to moderate current, not only "perfectly still water" or without surge. The full DIR flutter is meant for high current if you have to go against it.

If any of the propulsion techniques are not done correctly, they're not going to move you much, and certainly not in the direction you want to go. Sometimes it's best to just bite the bullet and get the training that some seem to so desperately want.