Immediate CESA Vs. looking for your buddy...

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Excellent point and also a bit of a reminder Ayisha. My instructor must have been even better than I knew. He'd drilled that into my head (about taking or trying to take another breath as you go) so much so that 2 decades + later, it's still first in my mind, that I might be able to get another breath or two as I ascend. All that said, he didn't tell me what the doctor told you with regard to how just the trying may keep me from passing out on the way. Cool beans

I think of what my instructor taught me every time I dive and now I will think of it more fully.
 
I was just thinking about something which happened to 2 divers I know. g in terms of rec diving and not tech diving where deco is an issue. For me, I only have one dive buddy that I trust. We do many drills all the time. If he is not available to dive and I dive with others, I treat it like a solo dive and prepare as such. (Honestly, I tend to dive sidemount doubles OR sling a 40cu on rec dives. I like to be overly cautious)
A CESA from that depth is no joke. It all comes down to circumstances. If your buddy was 40' away and swimming away, you might not have a choice, I guess. But, I would darn sure try to sort it out and share gas before going ballistic for the surface. You have more time than you think to sort out the regulators. I'd sure give the air share the college try.
 
Have just passed my Padi OW in Red Sea, 8 dives in, certainly found it hard on the 'mask off' and CESA tasks but did them in one go. Speaking to other beginners and instructors, it's Definately a break point in yr training. Some panicky stories i heard ! Reading these threads makes me feel I will do a practise CESA with buddy on each holiday, so I remmbr how and am sure my buddy does too. Safe not Sorry.
 
Have just passed my Padi OW in Red Sea, 8 dives in, certainly found it hard on the 'mask off' and CESA tasks but did them in one go. Speaking to other beginners and instructors, it's Definately a break point in yr training. Some panicky stories i heard ! Reading these threads makes me feel I will do a practise CESA with buddy on each holiday, so I remmbr how and am sure my buddy does too. Safe not Sorry.

There is kind of a catch 22 to this mentality/approach: You want to practice something in real time so that you can rely on the skill if ever needed but if you screw up you can injure/kill yourself during that practice run.

I think this is why some of us have suggested that it is not a skill that is worthwhile to practice/develop and that efforts are better spent configuring, developing, learning, and drilling on those things that would make a CESA unnecessary in the first place.

-Z
 
...Excellent point and also a bit of a reminder Ayisha. My instructor must have been even better than I knew. He'd drilled that into my head (about taking or trying to take another breath as you go) so much so that 2 decades + later, it's still first in my mind, that I might be able to get another breath or two as I ascend. All that said, he didn't tell me what the doctor told you with regard to how just the trying may keep me from passing out on the way. Cool beans...

My o/w instructor also stressed that there might be one or 2 breaths available as you ascend, but the need to mimic inhaling once in a while in order to maintain consciousness was new to me.

Let's just avoid the need for a CESA in the first place. :wink:
 
My o/w instructor also stressed that there might be one or 2 breaths available as you ascend, but the need to mimic inhaling once in a while in order to maintain consciousness was new to me.

I think part of the reason they now teach freedivers to remove the snorkel is to make sure they don't try to inhale once in a while on the way up. And also their way to combat blackouts is to cough, or simulate one, as opposed to inhale.
 
I’ve never heard that coughing or trying to inhale were useful in maintaining consciousness. Are there any references we can look at that pertain to these ideas?
 
He'd drilled that into my head (about taking or trying to take another breath as you go) so much so that 2 decades + later, it's still first in my mind, that I might be able to get another breath or two as I ascend.
I confess that I had a hard time with this concept when it was first introduced to me. So, some years ago, I decided to test it. I took a 40cf pony, with about 500 psi left in it, down to 93 feet and sucked it dry - I was sucking on a vacuum when I switched back to my primary. On my primary gas supply, I then ascended to a platform at 15ft and switched back to the pony, and got 3+ good breaths from the regulator second stage (3 normal breaths and a partial 4th). That was with a 40 inch hose on the second stage of the pony. With a 7ft hose, maybe the results would have been even better.
Jcp2:
Can a diver practice a voluntary CESA safely? Who would be around to help if something goes wrong? An instructor?
Yes, you can practice it safely. And, you don't need an instructor to do so. A dive buddy - yes. One of the unfortunate aspects of dive training is that THE MAJORITY of certified divers never practice the skills they supposedly 'mastered', again after certification. A number of SB members are exceptions to this, fortunately. But, the reality is that we see Accident and Incident reports where divers come to grief because they aren't able to do something as simple as orally inflating their BCD, or dropping their weights. And, these are easier skills to practice, and perform, than a CESA. This is not a criticism of training, or agencies. Rather, it is an honest acknowledgement that the conspicuous relative safety of diving lulls many divers into a sense of security that may not serve them well in the unlikely event of a gear failure, or out of air emergency.

If the DAN data are to be believed (and I certainly think they should be) a substantial proportion of reported recreational diver injuries and deaths occur in connection with some failure of the gas supply (and 'failure' is a euphemism for 'running out of gas' in many if not most cases). So, action directed toward correcting problems that involve interruptions of the gas supply should be a priority - preventing it from happening in the first place, AND managing it when it occurs. That management should include recurrent training to make the execution of emergency procedures as competent, timely and flawless as possible. Practicing a CESA can be part of the management process.

Yes, it is (far, far) better to not find yourself in a position where executing a CESA is your best option - engaging in competent dive planning, equipment maintenance, buddy skills development, redundancy, etc., are ALL better uses of time than practicing a CESA, at least from an intellectual perspective. Personally, I like the idea of having the ability to competently execute a CESA in my array of management procedures, even though I should never have to get to that point. My personal reservations about the CESA have to do with the toll it takes on me as an Instructor. I have never had a student injured while performing a CESA as part of their training, in Confined or Open Water. But, I have had more than a little ear discomfort, even damage, from making multiple ascents (and subsequent descents) with students as their Instructor. So, if PADI were to remove the CESA from the list of skills that are taught in Open Water Diver training, I wouldn't be too sorry. But, I would personally still practice it, just in case. :)
 
I’ve never heard that coughing or trying to inhale were useful in maintaining consciousness. Are there any references we can look at that pertain to these ideas?

Plenty of references to "hook breaths" which may or may not be based on the same idea as coughs.
 
Plenty of references to "hook breaths" which may or may not be based on the same idea as coughs.

That used to be a common technique with fighter pilots, especially those that fly on demonstration teams like the US Navy Blue Angels. The pilots used to not wear inflatable pressure suits to counter the G-forces during maneuvers because as the suits inflated they felt it affected the precision control of the aircraft during close-quarter stunts. They opted to use what is/was known as the "Hook" technique to keep from blacking out. Basically it is an exhale in a caugh/gasp like manner that sounds simmilar to a lungy/breathy elongated version of the word "hook". Not sure if they are allowed to forego the pressure suits anymore but I wouldn't be surprised if the hook technique is still used.

-Z
 
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