New to CCR, What agency?

[Traveling nomad]

Most people I know cross over at the Mod 1 level and leave it at that. If you get another unit, do the crossover with whoever can teach on the unit. The point is to teach you the unit itself, and the way it dives. Mod 2 and 3 are very much more about teaching you skills involved with surviving depth, decompression, etc., rather than the ins and outs of the unit itself.

Most people I know who are certified on several units only have Mod 2 or 3 for one unit, regardless of whether or not they're diving other units to those levels. And I've never had anybody ask to see a rebreather ticket regardless of the dive. Although I may have to finally go do a cave ccr course if I ever want to dive at Ginnie, despite the fact that I've been cave ccr diving since I got my first unit.

ETA: @Traveling nomad that's a solid choice on unit. The Pelagian is a solid little unit that travels exceedingly well. I own one myself and thoroughly enjoy diving it, even though it's not the only unit I own. I don't agree with Andy's two-cell ideology, hence adding a 3rd cell to my unit so that I can make decisions with a more acceptable level of information (in my mind anyway), but overall the unit is fantastic, and has taken me some serious places. I dive a hybrid unit that's a combo of a Mk1, a Mk2, and various aftermarket bits and pieces.

You unit sounds a lot like mine then, I picked it up second hand. It's a Mk1 mostly upgraded to Mk2, apart from the head and loop diameter. Also got a third cell with a petrel 2 on a fisher cable.
Will be very interesting to start diving it soon.

 

[stuartv]

Hi All

I just bought myself a CCR and am trying to choose an agency to do my training with. I do understand that the certification is unit specific for these.
Are also the higher certs, trimix, cave, etc unit specific?

What I mean is, if a train on unit A, to trimix level. Then switch to unit B, do a crossover, then would I be starting over from the beginning again having to go through all higher levels of training again as well (huge extra cost)?
Or after doing a crossover are all higher certs also updated to reflect this crossover?
Is it different from agency to agency? How?

Thanks for any information

I'm a new CCR diver myself, so take these comments as the words of a newbie.

It's already been said, find the instructor first. Then worry about what agency.

MY understanding is that people use the terms MOD1, MOD2, and MOD3 to describe CCR training. But, I am not sure if any agency actually issues a cert using those terms. I.e. I don't think TDI issues a card that says MOD1 on it.

From what I can tell the definitions of MOD2 and MOD3 seem to be pretty well established. MOD2 means Normoxic Trimix and MOD3 means Full (aka Hypoxic) Trimix. MOD1 seems to be more nebulous. MOD1 could mean anything from air dil with no deco and a 100' depth limit, to helitrox (i.e. up to 20% helium) dil with unlimited deco and a 150' depth limit, to what I have which is basically normoxic trimix but with a 170' depth limit and 15 minute limit on deco. All of those would fall under the general category of MOD1.

If your instructor can issue multiple agencies, well, the only ones I know ANYTHING about are TDI and IANTD. My instructor could issue either. I chose IANTD so that I could also do IANTD Advanced Recreational Trimix along with my initial rEvo training. The result was/is a cert (2 C cards, actually) that allows me to dive to 170' (instead of the more normal 100 or 150' for a MOD 1 diver) and use as much helium as I want. That was all predicated on already having OC Normoxic Trimix certification (i.e. TDI Trimix), so that route is not for everyone.

But, for MOD 2, IANTD also offers Normoxic Trimix CCR and Normoxic Trimix Plus CCR, the latter of which will certify me to 70m, instead of the usual 60m for a normal Normoxic Trimix CCR cert. That extra 10m will get me to at least one wreck I want to go to that a 60m ticket would not. So, another reason I am staying on the IANTD path.

At the MOD 1 level, crossing over to another unit is the same, regardless of which agency. Once you're at MOD 2 or MOD 3, I *think* (totally not sure if this is still the case) that TDI would require you to cross over to MOD 1 on the new unit and get 25 or 50(?) hours on the new unit before getting MOD 2 on the new unit, etc.. But, IANTD will let you cross over directly from MOD 2 on one unit to MOD 2 on a different unit. Again, I think. I am not a CCR instructor.

However, for your first MOD 2 cert, I don't think it matters. I think even if you got a TDI MOD 2 on your first CCR, you could do an IANTD crossover to a new unit (and be crossed over at MOD 2). Again, I *think*.

Enjoy your Pelagian and your training!

 

[Jeremy Williams]

MY understanding is that people use the terms MOD1, MOD2, and MOD3 to describe CCR training. But, I am not sure if any agency actually issues a cert using those terms. I.e. I don't think TDI issues a card that says MOD1 on it.

I'm relatively new to all of this too, much like @stuartv , but I would also say it's helpful to review the RESA standards for CCR training. They seem to have the support of most of the industry including most of the manufacturers and almost every certification agency. But be aware that neither TDI or IANTD certifications line up exactly with those RESA standards.

https://www.rebreather.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/RESA-_V2.0.pdf

Also, they say...

RESA was developed in order to aid in improving the education and safety in the rebreather industry and to ensure that the appropriate framework is in place that suits our growing industry. We have been actively discussing rebreather training at the Normoxic (MOD 2) and Hypoxic (MOD 3) Trimix levels. Some instructors have been teaching advanced level courses to divers on units where the instructor only has minimal training. These instructors have only been required to pass a user course on the second and subsequent units. Below is the standard that RESA members voted on. This standard was approved with a unanimous vote from both RESA Manufacturers and RESA Training Agencies. This standard is for Normoxic (MOD 2) and Hypoxic (MOD 3) Trimix training on additional rebreather’s only. For entry level training (MOD1) the instructor is required to be trained as a unit specific instructor by an IT for the specific rebreather.

I'm only speculating, but I think that the MOD1/2/3 nomenclature may have come from a time when it was assumed that a CCR diver would only exist at the deepest fringes of scuba diving. Thus, perhaps it was assumed that all three "modules" would ultimately be necessary for a qualified rebreather diver? Who knows...

 

[Germie]

Only the user level is unit specific, ccr cave, ccr normoxic (mod2) and ccr full tx (mod3) are not unit specific. You only have to do a CROSSOVER from one unit to another to become user certified. A crossover is shorter than the normal user course. The duration can differ.

Some agencies put on the certs 'Meglodon normoxic diver'. And other agencies 'ccr normoxic diver'. I prefer certs without the unit name on it. Just in case when the future will change. My cards don't have a ccr brand on it. Only the user level.

 

[JohnnyC]

To be fair, PSAI misspelled the name of my rebreather on my MOD1 cert so it's entirely possible someone would think it's a fake anyway.....

 

[Traveling nomad]

Only the user level is unit specific, ccr cave, ccr normoxic (mod2) and ccr full tx (mod3) are not unit specific. You only have to do a CROSSOVER from one unit to another to become user certified. A crossover is shorter than the normal user course. The duration can differ.

Some agencies put on the certs 'Meglodon normoxic diver'. And other agencies 'ccr normoxic diver'. I prefer certs without the unit name on it. Just in case when the future will change. My cards don't have a ccr brand on it. Only the user level.

Do you know which agencies put the Unit name on MOD2/3, cave etc and which doesn't?

 

[Caveeagle]

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of rebreather certs issued in cave country spend most of their required bottom time in the overhead almost right off the bat. There's only so much to see at Troy.....

 

[Caveeagle]

Mixed feelings about the new Ginnie/cave CCR rule.

I’ve been diving CCR for just a little over a year. I approached this with a very healthy dose of caution, and have chosen to stay well inside 2k linear ft of range for now.

I did limit my first 35 hrs to OW/ Cavern, with just a couple dives to the FL room at Little River, diving with some a very experienced CCR Mentor.

I now have my Cave-CCR am am actually glad the “Ginnie Rule” sort of forced me to see, out the additional training. For me at least, the “speed bump” was very beneficial.

I know it would be hard to manage, but an Intro-Cave-CCR would have been a good step.

 

[_Ralph]

What is the preferred progression to Cave CCR?

All of my CCR training dives were in the cavern zone, I currently have Intro to Cave (I can knock out a solid 70-90min dive in most medium flow caves in Fl on 1/6 and usually turn due to restrictions than gas)

Funny enough, next week on my JJ course, they're all back in cenotes, with the last 2 days in the ocean for some depth experience....


_R

 

[Tug]

Do you know which agencies put the Unit name on MOD2/3, cave etc and which doesn't?

TDI and SSI both list the unit name, but IANTD does not. This is why I asked for an IANTD cert for my Mod 2/3 vs TDI or SSI (my instructor is an Instructor/IT for multiple agencies).