Horrible Divers Everywhere?

[Esprise Me]

That's fair; I actually haven't used Nitrox since I got certified (I did use it for one dive as part of the course), though I plan to use it on an upcoming LOB trip. I don't think everyone needs to use it on every dive, for the reasons you stated, and some shops are probably guilty of at least insinuating otherwise to sell courses (or just the gas.) But I do think it has its place, and I thought the course did a good job of covering what you need to know to use it, at a reasonable price. (Side note: I don't think I paid anywhere near $400 though--maybe a quarter of that? I was swiping my credit card so much that trip it's all a little blurry...)

But my real question is, do you think your original instruction taught you more than the AOW course teaches today, or was the course just useless to you because of all you've learned in the 50 years since you got certified?

 

[AfterDark]

That's fair; I actually haven't used Nitrox since I got certified (I did use it for one dive as part of the course), though I plan to use it on an upcoming LOB trip. I don't think everyone needs to use it on every dive, for the reasons you stated, and some shops are probably guilty of at least insinuating otherwise to sell courses (or just the gas.) But I do think it has its place, and I thought the course did a good job of covering what you need to know to use it, at a reasonable price. (Side note: I don't think I paid anywhere near $400 though--maybe a quarter of that? I was swiping my credit card so much that trip it's all a little blurry...)

But my real question is, do you think your original instruction taught you more than the AOW course teaches today, or was the course just useless to you because of all you've learned in the 50 years since you got certified?

Excuse me the $400 was for a combo AWO and nitrox.

My original course was a 12 week course, the 1st two weeks were all classroom, we learned gas laws, equipment types, decompression theory and tables all the mundane stuff. As the weeks went by we spent more time in the pool and less the classroom. The final pool exam included the "harassment" phase. This was 2 instructors with one student in the 10' part of the pool. Back then it was back pack no BCD the straps had to be made quick release by the student. The harassment started by one of the 2 removing your mask, while you were retrieving that one of your quick release straps are pulled, while your clearing your mask, the reg is removed and thrown behind you, then a fin is removed. It's extreme task loading under controlled conditions. When I got out in OW I knew just how I would react if someone accidently knocked my mask off, no surprises.
Then it was 5 open water dives, 3 shores dives, 2 boat dives, one of the dives a night dive. It was an expensive well rounded class but worth the money and effort. The same money these days would be over $1000.00
I've had many real world learning experiences along the way since then.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

define "overpriced advanced card and expensive nitrox card"

The very beginning of your post makes people scratch their heads ....

you do realize scuba diving is ultra expensive compared to activities like jogging and tennis correct?

I don't think it has anyone scratching their heads. When I got certified I paid to become a diver, AOW was to become a better diver. It was sold as such, but the fact is that's not what was sold. I didn't know any different at the time.

It's not that I mind spending money, it's that I do mind getting bamboozled. I have very expensive plastic in my wallet that as says so. The 3 basics (trim, buoyancy, and propulsion) were glazed over in my class but I didn't know. I remember them signaling "stay horizontal". How tf can I stay horizontal when my ass has 22 lbs and my top has nothing, lol? I said multiple times I don't think my weight is in the right spot....but I didn't know. I just listened to the DM and was pushed through the class.

I'm not upset about the money, heck I have a few things around my house that I look at and think ???? but I don't know what I don't know...all an experience, but I do wish I could say a good one.

 

[seeker242]

I know I'm ranting, but is this the norm?

For BHB on a busy day in the summer? Yes, pretty much.

 

[AfterDark]

I don't think it has anyone scratching their heads. When I got certified I paid to become a diver, AOW was to become a better diver. It was sold as such, but the fact is that's not what was sold. I didn't know any different at the time.

It's not that I mind spending money, it's that I do mind getting bamboozled. I have very expensive plastic in my wallet that as says so. The 3 basics (trim, buoyancy, and propulsion) were glazed over in my class but I didn't know. I remember them signaling "stay horizontal". How tf can I stay horizontal when my ass has 22 lbs and my top has nothing, lol? I said multiple times I don't think my weight is in the right spot....but I didn't know. I just listened to the DM and was pushed through the class.

I'm not upset about the money, heck I have a few things around my house that I look at and think ???? but I don't know what I don't know...all an experience, but I do wish I could say a good one.

I feel ya, and I went into it with wide opened eyes knowing if I had teaching skills, I could probably teach the class. I got out of the class what I wanted, a card that someone with probably less experience than I can look at and then tell me I'm ok to dive. I haven't used that card since 2013 the last charter I went on.

You should have gotten something more out of the course, darn shame. With so very few LDS in many areas it's hard to find an instructor that wants to make divers, not card carrying imposters.

 

[Rich Keller]

I'm here in FL and went diving at my FAVORITE place to dive, the Blue Heron Bridge. WTF? There were divers everywhere CRAWLING ON THE BOTTOM (I've never been on a weekend). Classes were being taught on the bottom. I saw one discover scuba (I guess) where her guide was literally trying to pick her crawling ass up of the floor. She was crawling on all fours towards a structure to see the fish. I was appalled. I bet 70% of the divers I saw were on the floor. It's not a quarry (where people get pissed if your on the bottom because you destroy the visibility). It's a habitat.

Relax dude, sounds like they were all students and its just sand. Most new divers don't start out knowing everything the way I am sure you did. If you feel the need to get hysterical go back there and yell at the instructors. I am sure they will give your rant all the attention that it deserves.

 

[CT-Rich]

I had the twelve week course in 1980. They taught me things that were the norm in 1980; Tables, BT, square profiles, ditch and don, buddy breathing. We had swim tests, I was required to keep my index fingers out of the water while treading water, surface diving, mouth to snorkel, rescue tows.

I loved it. I was going to classes twice a week all winter. I ate it up. Was everything I learned super useful? No. Was 12 weeks of training really appropriate for someone who wanted to go diving on their honeymoon? Also no. At that time diving was considered a more manly art. Did I really need to tread water with my index fingers exposed? I wish my daughter had taken a twelve week coarse, but it’s not because she would be a super better diver, but because it was fun.

 

[MichaelMc]

I remember them signaling "stay horizontal". How tf can I stay horizontal when my ass has 22 lbs and my top has nothing, lol? I said multiple times I don't think my weight is in the right spot....

This ^^^^^^^. I know I'm piling on on the inadequacies of some instruction.
Bolding above is mine, and realizing that the quoted class may have been years ago.

The Padi 2017 Instructor manual for OW lays out adjusting for trim in confined water:
CW1: 1. Put on and adjust mask, fins, snorkel, BCD, scuba kit and weights with assistance ....
CW2: 2. Put on and adjust mask, fins, snorkel, BCD, scuba kit and weights with buddy ....
CW3: 2. With buddy, perform a weight check and adjust for proper weighting.
CW4: 1. With buddy, perform a weight check and adjust for proper weighting and trim. (bolding mine)

This does not seem to permit leaving CW4 with weighting that gives you an ass down orientation. Unless ass down is somehow defined as proper trim. I doubt that adjust trim means fin like mad to get your butt up, and keep doing that.

And the CW4 adjustment is to be done with their buddy. So the assistance in CW1 in putting on and adjusting weights would be a good time to show them how to achieve weight adjustment for proper trim. Maybe even doing it for them in the water and explaining what you are doing. So they could do it with their buddy by CW4. Not that it should really change unless their gear changes.

That really just seems to follow for my reading of those words.
</end rant>

ETA: It does say
"CW3 6. While neutrally buoyant, swim slowly in a horizontal position to determine trim. Adjust trim, as feasible, for a normal swimming position. "
So horizontal just while swimming slowly might be fine, at that point. And only if it's feasible. So if you only stocked those low integrated pockets and no trim pockets, it's just not feasible, so no worry. 22 lb. ass heavy it is for you. Aagh! But that is what it says, unless some later rule says no way, like possibly CW4. 1.

ETA: I've said nothing about needing a BP/W. Just that you likely need some place high for lead. And an instructor that follows their standards.

 

[happy-diver]

Because we're worth it

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Relax dude, sounds like they were all students and its just sand. Most new divers don't start out knowing everything the way I am sure you did. If you feel the need to get hysterical go back there and yell at the instructors. I am sure they will give your rant all the attention that it deserves.

I think I'm pretty relaxed. Being a newish diver with only a few years under my belt I've never experienced that before. I think I said something about looking for a different perspective how to look at the situation? I found it here on the internet which imo is the whole point of the forum.

I definitely don't know everything, but I know it's not just sand. If you watch on a day when no one is around there's blenny / goby all over the place in their little holes. If it was just sand I agree, who cares. My point was they take people to a habitat and kneel on it, next step is the reef, which also happens to have a lot of sand. Is that ok to kneel on as well? Curious what your take on it is?