Dual Bladder Wings - A Good Choice for Redundancy?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

When you do have a leaking inflator you now have 2 to deal with (yes one isnt connected but you will still futz with both under stress)

I'll give you the classic GUE answer: sounds like a training issue. So, I don't buy this reason. A leaking inflator isn't a catastrophic issue. Typically inflators start to champagne, right? I don't see this becoming a major issue unless you ignore it. And I don't see that happening.

If it isnt connected what good is it when you're dropping down the wall like a stone? So do you or dont you have muscle memory about what to do with it? (this is really the biggest issue)

So are we in the scenario where the person is using a redundant bladder and is wearing a wetsuit? (the only scenario where having a redundant bladder makes any sense) Are we talking about a massive puncture that causes it to lose all the gas? It would have to be at the back. I don't see how this scenario would occur other than inside a wreck , but then they are not going to drop into the abyss.

If you do use the backup you have residual gas in the primary and are inflating the secondary now which will making venting one or both an issue

I really don't see becoming much of an issue. Yes there will be residual gas. It would be an annoyance and require using both hands at that point. Not a significant problem. Training should resolve this

The right side inflator is bungied down right where your long hose clips off

I see that as rather annoying. I've never used a dual bladder wing for backmount. I do see that the storage of the redundant hose as problematic/annoying, but not a disaster in waiting.

The basic principle of Hogarthian is if you dont need it leave it at home. You dont need a dual wing.

Here I agree. I was more curious about the significant problems that GI3 claimed.

 

[PfcAJ]

I'll give you the classic GUE answer: sounds like a training issue. So, I don't buy this reason. A leaking inflator isn't a catastrophic issue. Typically inflators start to champagne, right? I don't see this becoming a major issue unless you ignore it. And I don't see that happening.


So are we in the scenario where the person is using a redundant bladder and is wearing a wetsuit? (the only scenario where having a redundant bladder makes any sense) Are we talking about a massive puncture that causes it to lose all the gas? It would have to be at the back. I don't see how this scenario would occur other than inside a wreck , but then they are not going to drop into the abyss.


I really don't see becoming much of an issue. Yes there will be residual gas. It would be an annoyance and require using both hands at that point. Not a significant problem. Training should resolve this


I see that as rather annoying. I've never used a dual bladder wing for backmount. I do see that the storage of the redundant hose as problematic/annoying, but not a disaster in waiting.


Here I agree. I was more curious about the significant problems that GI3 claimed.

A leaking inflator can certainly cook your goose.

A former dive buddy of mine did a rocket ascent from like 150’ due to a runaway inflator. Iirc he had significant DCS symptoms. Thankfully they resolved with chamber treatment.

You “don’t see” a lot of real issues.

I’ve “seen” broken elbows (all the gas comes out), broken dump valves (most of the gas comes out), and friends with potentially life altering consequences from runaway inflators.

Dual bladder wings complicate all those issues far more than simply diving a balanced rig.

 

[MichaelMc]

Dual bladder wings complicate all those issues far more than simply diving a balanced rig.

I understand there are often requirements for redundant buoyancy. If one dives wet, how do you cover that?

I think the extra inflator LP hose in question that was running away / bubbling was not attached.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

A leaking inflator can certainly cook your goose.
A former dive buddy of mine did a rocket ascent from like 150’ due to a runaway inflator. Iirc he had significant DCS symptoms. Thankfully they resolved with chamber treatment.

No different than a redundant bladder where the other inflator hose isn't connected.

You “don’t see” a lot of real issues with an additional bladder.

There, fixed it for you.

I’ve “seen” broken elbows (all the gas comes out), broken dump valves (most of the gas comes out), and friends with potentially life altering consequences from runaway inflators.

And how would having a redundant bladder make any difference?

Dual bladder wings complicate all those issues far more than simply diving a balanced rig.

Hey, get it through your head guys, I'm not defending dual bladder wings. But you gotta do better than this if you claim problems. You have to be specific. So far, you nor Richard has done so. I can accept that redundant bladders don't offer anything of value really. But I'm not convinced that it causes problems. That doesn't mean that it doesn't. It just means that none of you have provided a case where a redundant bladder causes a problem that doesn't exist with a single bladder, other than it getting in the way of the right D-ring (which isn't going to happen, unless your primary fails at the same time as your wing - not likely, right?).

 

[rjack321]

The bedrock of DIR is Hogarthian, if its not needed leave it at home.

How about you take GUE Tech1 and get back to us on the redundant bladder being a training issue? When all hell is breaking loose (which it does albit rarely) the last thing you need is a long hose trapped under a second power inflator or to have trapped gas, or to fiddle about with a second inflator when you should be going for your suit, or worse to actually have switched to that second wing but now you have a power inflator fail (full open - its happened and its killed people) and whoops the dump is on the wrong side. You cant shut down the right post and dump from the wrong sided pull dump at the same time. Oh wait maybe you ran the second BC whip off the left post so you'd have redundancy in case of a right reg failure? Now you are doing exactly the opposite of what you're trained to do - and you better figure it out in a fraction of a second or you're going to cork like @PfcAJ 's buddy.

Just no, its not needed and causes all sorts of confusion for no value.

 

[MichaelMc]

or to fiddle about with a second inflator when you should be going for your suit,

I’ll ask again,
What if you do not have a dry suit?

And you are required to have redundant buoyancy.

 

[PfcAJ]

I’ll ask again,
What if you do not have a dry suit?

And you are required to have redundant buoyancy.

Then your tanks need to be light enough for you to swim against the negative buoyancy.

That’s it.

If you can’t, you need lighter tanks.

 

[lowviz]

And you are required to have redundant buoyancy.

A 50# lift bag that is clipped on your ass in the deadwater zone of your wing costs nothing in drag and works well as the last horse out of Dodge...

 

[PfcAJ]

No different than a redundant bladder where the other inflator hose isn't connected.



There, fixed it for you.



And how would having a redundant bladder make any difference?



Hey, get it through your head guys, I'm not defending dual bladder wings. But you gotta do better than this if you claim problems. You have to be specific. So far, you nor Richard has done so. I can accept that redundant bladders don't offer anything of value really. But I'm not convinced that it causes problems. That doesn't mean that it doesn't. It just means that none of you have provided a case where a redundant bladder causes a problem that doesn't exist with a single bladder, other than it getting in the way of the right D-ring (which isn't going to happen, unless your primary fails at the same time as your wing - not likely, right?).

What exactly do you think you’re going to do when you jump off the boat and the elbow pops off?

You’re now a lawn dart headed for Davy Jones locker. You aren’t going to overcome the negative buoyancy of double steel tanks by orally inflating.

 

[PfcAJ]

A 50# lift bag that is clipped on your ass in the deadwater zone of your wing costs nothing in drag and works well as the last horse out of Dodge...

I’ll contend that’s not an option either.

Pulling out a lift bag and trying to do anything when you’re in an uncontrolled ascent ( RIP ear drums) is fantasy land. MAYBE it can help you if you’re already on the bottom. But planning for best case scenario isn’t a wise move.