Fatality in the Vandenberg Wreck, Key West Florida

[Marie13]

Having done a guided dive or two to 100 ft is not the same as just diving to 100ft and may not give a full experience. Most of the decision making on a guided dive is taken care of. When diving without a guide and with a buddy the decisions are up to you. (Actually with a guide you should be ready to make a decision too of course)

I do a lot of dives to 80ish ft. I do not worry about narcing but I notice a slight slowing if I have problem solving to do. Once I hit 100 ft there is definitely some slowing of my thinking. I find I need to make an effort to keep on task and check air frequently. Sense of time is off. My dives all have a hard bottom at 115 ft or less. Have had one dark narc on a ledge at 105 ft. Was an over cast day so dark and gloomy. Got a very strong feeling of dread. Went away once I went up a few ft and got back within sight of the anchor line. Had dove this ledge before without such an issue. I do not do instabuddies past 90 ft. Dive either with an experienced dive buddy I know or with a hired DM.

@Steve_C

Totally agreed on the non-guided dives. And once you’ve felt that dark narc, you will never forget it. I’ve not felt it since the 117ft dive last year. Perhaps it’s because I’ve got more deep experience now, but I don’t know. My dives are all hard bottom, but depth varies.

 

[Esprise Me]

I do not do instabuddies past 90 ft. Dive either with an experienced dive buddy I know or with a hired DM.

This seems like a good rule of thumb. I may steal it. I know some people advocate no instabuddies ever, but I wouldn't get to dive much if I did that.

 

[nolatom]

Without commenting on this particular incident (let's wait before getting too case-specific, but the general discussion I do appreciate), I've had a "runaway" buddy kinda early in my dive career.
She was a difficult and headstrong personality on the boat, more guts than brains it seemed, had to sit out a dive after breaking the boat's depth limit, and yet I buddied with her the next morning when my trip buddy sat out what was the last dive of the trip, out at Stetson Bank (yeah, what does that say about me, can we not go there? Thanks ;-)

It was like trying to "herd cats", hardly ever checked in with me visually or otherwise, but I finally got her to the boat's anchor line to begin ascent, I was down to about 700. But then she let go the line and took off on her own, toward the pinnacles nearer to the boat's stern, then behind them and out of sight. Oh, crap, I thought as she went, do I go with her? No, I can't, I don't have enough air to chase her, much less "catch" her, get her to ascend (maybe), and make the ascent and safety stop, or even no safety stop

So I didn't chase her. I ascended "normally", though my mind raced ahead to "where the f did she go, and why? How much air does she have? Is she going to die? Will it be my fault? What am I going to say at her funeral? Will I even be invited? Probably not. Definitely not. Damn. Why'd she put me in this position?"
I made the shortest safety stop I could justify, as I had to get back up to see what happened--lost? dead? Alive?

Alive. And on the boat already, chatting with the few divers who were still talking to her. It seems she just decided to swim aft and ascend directly under the stern ladders without a safety stop, lah-de-dah..

So I went to the "Magi", the boat Captain and the Dive Mistress, explained it to them. They told me I'd done the right thing--better one casualty than two, and good thing it worked out.

This was a vivid lesson for me at the time, and it still is.

 

[Marie13]

Marie13 I would highly recommend it. Nitrox (32% to 110) and then a light tri-mix after that (or at least 28% Nitrox). Not only will it be safer because you will have a lower PPN2, but you will enjoy the dive more as you will have more clarity. I think you are making a very smart move to do it.

@MalibuJerry

Not sure why you think Nitrox will reduce the level of narc someone might experience. That’s what helium is for.

 

[JackD342]

@MalibuJerry

Not sure why you think Nitrox will reduce the level of narc someone might experience. That’s what helium is for.

Because for ages we called it nitrogen narcosis rather than gas narcosis. Also we say we got narc'ed. Very easy to make the leap to thinking that less nitrogen equals less risk of occurrence.

 

[Kmart921]

@MalibuJerry

Not sure why you think Nitrox will reduce the level of narc someone might experience. That’s what helium is for.

Probably because Nitrox courses specifically highlight one of the benefits of Nitrox as reducing narcosis. And in my experience, it does.

I'm not sure where this notion of Nitrox not reducing narcosis came from. I feel like today is the first time I've ever seen it come up.

Because for ages we called it nitrogen narcosis rather than gas narcosis. Also we say we got narc'ed. Very easy to make the leap to thinking that less nitrogen equals less risk of occurrence.

It's still called nitrogren narcosis in the course materials I have...

EDIT: I'm wrong, see below.

 

[divezonescuba]

Probably because Nitrox courses specifically highlight one of the benefits of Nitrox as reducing narcosis. And in my experience, it does.

What agencies teach that?

 

[Kmart921]

What agencies teach that?

SSI. At least, they did when I took the course 2 years ago. I'm going to take another look at the materials to see exactly what it says about narcosis.

Edit: Ignore what I said, I was wrong. Here is what it actually says:

"The fact that diving nitrox exposes divers to less nitrogen, suggests the use of nitrox should result in less nitrogen narcosis. Studies have not been able to verify this, however. A possible reason why is that oxygen itself can be narcotic, and exposure to greater concentrations of oxygen, such as occurs when diving nitrox, may also cause impairment.

Until such time as researchers can verify what impact, if any, nitrox has on narcosis, you should not count on experiencing less narcosis or impairment when diving nitrox than you do when diving air at comparable depths."

So they still call it "nitrogen narcosis", but they acknowledge that it may not have any impact.

 

[Carl_F]

I think determining if this diver's decision making was adversely impacted by narcosis or not would be influenced by his previous decision making. I've been narced and I've found my decision making is slowed, not completely out of whack. (And, yes, I understand effects of narcosis are not the same amongst individuals.)

But if they had been in the 100 - 110 ft range for a while, I have a hard time thinking the diver suddenly decided to head deeper in the wreck without a full or nearly full tank due to narcosis. Another theory would be that this is the type of decision making that had been occurring previously. The normalization of deviation would result in the individual much more likely to make such a decision. I would posit that this normalization of deviation would play a greater role than narcosis in the decision making process.

Re: leaving the buddy - the buddy "duty of care" is highly dependent on both buddies adhering to the social and training norms of the dive. Once one buddy decides to deviate from those norms, IMO, it releases the other buddy from her/his "duty of care". In this case, the individual's buddy did absolutely the right thing to proceed to the surface. He did everything he would reasonably be expected to do in this situation.

 

[Steelyeyes]

I don’t blame the buddy at all. Article said he had to surface.

Most important thing you learn in a rescue diver course is not to become a second victim. If the situation is thus then it's time to bail.