OOA on the Vandenberg

[Steelyeyes]

I think it is unfortunate that the operators who dive the Vandy regularly don't offer meaningfully larger tanks. Captain's Corner only offers AL80s and short-filled AL100s, which give you maybe 90-95 cf depending on the day. If memory serves, DKW has steel 100s, which would be an improvement albeit a slight one.

Between the depth, the current, and the fact that the most sensible dive plans involve following a circular route, it is easy to have a sensible dive plan that has to be scrapped 1/3 of the way through because someone is low on air. That's demoralizing for everyone involved, and poses safety risks if someone misreads their SPG or isn't watching it or lies or whatever.

I know I'd have loved to have an AL100 available when we visited the Vandy, although on one dive we were up against our NDL.

 

[Slate]

700 psi when beginning an ascent from 90' is not an emergency in most cases.

Don't create drama (and possibly panic) when there is none.

 

[rongoodman]

700 psi when beginning an ascent from 90' is not an emergency in most cases.

Don't create drama (and possibly panic) when there is none.

It could turn into one very quickly if a panicked OOA diver shows up in your face.

 

[Slate]

It could turn into one very quickly if a panicked OOA diver shows up in your face.

Wonder how often or likely that is to happen.

I'm no instructor, so I'll ask is it protocol to donate an octopus in this situation? Seems excessive.

 

[Slate]

This is why if one of my regular dive buddies cannot dive I refuse to go diving. Was down in kW in August and my regular buddy could not dive due to nasal congestion. Did not dive not even 1 time anywhere on trip for lentire week, even though I dragged down gear and cameras from New York , pissed me off big time. I refuse to pay to dive and be forced to dive with an unknown person and not enjoy myself who usually runs low on air or other issues. Rather not dive at all than accept responsibility for someone I would need to baby sit..

Should have used the downtime to get yourself a solo cert and purchase the few pieces of required additional gear. Problem solved.

 

[Hoyden]

If I am responsible for someone's safety and they are not a known entity, I do not take their word for what is in their cylinder. I want to see their gauge. I know of too many cases like the one described where things went badly because of misread/miscommunicated gas amounts.

YMMV,

Jackie

 

[ChuckP]

It could turn into one very quickly if a panicked OOA diver shows up in your face.

The point being is situational awareness - as a DM, you know a person is lower than everyone else, his air ain’t where it should be according to earlier air checks in the dive. You hang right with him and provide the calming effect needed - an OOA diver is not going to be in your face, cause you’re right there already.

Don’t fix what ain’t broke period. Be aware, stay there but show them it’s all ok - you must be the pillar of support. The second you show a sign of distress, that guy COULD bug out.

You show relax and calm - don’t stare at SPG’s, check but calmly. Maybe calmly check your second but keep reassuring.

In tech class, we talked about equipment failure at depth inside a wreck - in doubles carrying your deco gas - one reg or valve fails, close your isolator valve and head out - his big thing was do not look at your spg, cause it makes no difference and just adds stress. Eliminate stress and don’t add to it.

 

[johndiver999]

I’m saying it’s probably more stressful if you offer them your octo too soon. Might cause them to think it’s an emergency situation and create panic, when in reality 700 psi on an ascent with a hang tank and a guide with plenty of air is not an emergency. OP handled it fine - no reason to think you did something wrong.

In general, I would agree that 700 psi is enough to climb a rope from 90 to the surface, but in this case you are incorrect - it was an impending emergency.

The guy DID run out of air, in fact he ran out at 30 feet, - apparently he didn't even make it to the normal safety stop depth. I agree that using another diver's octopus might be more stressful, however on the other hand they are climbing a rope - how hard is it to put the victim below you and climb the rope at an appropriate pace?

I stand by my recommendation that it would be better to start the air share early. If the LOA guy refuses, well that might be a clue that he is quite uncomfortable. Better to know that early, rather than later. He must have been blowing a ton of air, or their ascent rate was excessively slow, to burn through that much air on just a portion of the ascent.

I really don't think we should assume that a recreational diver who is qualified to dive 90 feet on a shipwreck, would fall victim to panic if he were to begin using an octopus, when he knows he can switch back to his own supply at any moment and the task loading is confined to climbing up a rope in good conditions. I think that is a better "bet" than letting him run his tank to zero at 30 feet on the ascent.

Even if the guy took the octo for 2 minutes of the ascent, it would have probably preserved enough air to make the safety stop, since the air consumption rate would reduce at shallower depths.

 

[rvojr]

The point being is situational awareness - as a DM, you know a person is lower than everyone else, his air ain’t where it should be according to earlier air checks in the dive. You hang right with him and provide the calming effect needed - an OOA diver is not going to be in your face, cause you’re right there already.

...close your isolator valve and head out - his big thing was do not look at your spg, cause it makes no difference and just adds stress. Eliminate stress and don’t add to it.

Seems to make sense to focus on your main priority because regardless of what the gauge says it will not change your course of action most of the time unless you are empty.

 

[GetDownScuba]

All I’m saying is the offer of the octo might induce panic or elevated stress. Sucking down 700 psi in two minutes after having used approx. 2300 for the descent and dive, which I assume was longer than 6 minutes, was possibly the result of mild panic or elevated stress.