DM course | what you'd have done differently?

[Lorenzoid]

I'd have taken GUE fundies before going pro.

Does RAID have an equivalent to GUE's Fundies? If not, maybe their DM course is the closest thing, and that's what the OP's favorite dive center offers.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Does RAID have an equivalent to GUE's Fundies? If not, maybe their DM course is the closest thing, and that's what the OP's favorite dive center offers.

Oh, if he's going with RAID, as opposed to any other WRSTC member, I think he'll be in good hands. Given that RAID has objective standards, and every single video I've seen of RAID instructors has been solid, I'm going to assume he's going to be taught to perform at the fundies rec level, if he isn't already there.

Because I started in a different agency, I was placed on my knees all the way through staff. When I started, RAID didn't exist. In my area, there's a very strong and really good GUE community. Hence I wish I took fundies before starting DM (after OW actually. it would have been a cluster, but my improvement curve would have been much steeper). Most people don't go through RAID, but other agencies, hence my recommendation.

 

[UGLY]

Does RAID have an equivalent to GUE's Fundies? If not, maybe their DM course is the closest thing, and that's what the OP's favorite dive center offers.

I didn't want to turn this into an agency discussion much, but the direct answer is no, RAID doesn't have a fundies type of course.

However, key common aspects are taught in their open water course. Proper trim and buoyancy from Day 1 (never any kneeling), and after that, all skills must be done with proper trim/ buoyancy.

Because of this RAID does not offer a separate "peak performance buoyancy" specialty.

And they require at least one non-silting propulsion method, which typically is more of a tech/ cave style frog kick not necessarily modified frog, but upper legs don't deviate from the flat plane.

Many of their open water course requirements are objective, and I've seen people not get certified.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I didn't want to turn this into an agency discussion much, but the direct answer is no, RAID doesn't have a fundies type of course.

Understandable, but because you are with the only WRSTC member (anyone correct me if I am missing something) that has objective standards, there is no reason to worry. Quality of training varies so dramatically for all the other WRSTC members and none have set stringent, objective performance requirements like RAID. DIR agencies not included as none are WRSTC members of course.

Just the reality. As everyone knows, I'm not a RAID instructor, but I love what they are doing and I hope they continue to grow and shake up the rest of the training agencies.

 

[Heat Miser]

I'd have taken GUE fundies before going pro.

I completed my Open Water with RAID and was taught some things resting on my knees in the pool. If I think back to the Open Water dives on the course, i.e. where the theory was put into practice, the drills weren’t conducted with knees or feet on the bottom/silt, however they weren’t conducted in trim either. Buoyancy control was mentioned as important, as it was when I did Perfect Buoyancy with SSI, but I really didn’t comprehend the importance that GUE put on it, until doing Fundies. The RAID online you tube videos on buoyancy are of high quality, but that level of skill wasn’t required to pass open water, nor probably should it be, in my opinion, most beginners don't have 10 weeks to practise hovering. I have watched the documentary on GUE.tv about the GUE rec 1 course, the divers are alot better than I was when finishing RAID OW, but they practised a lot longer too, in my opinion.

 

[halocline]

The DM course is much less about diving as it is about how to make money, how to deal with people, etc. It's not designed to make you a better diver.

This was not the case for my DM class, which was about improving diving and teaching/guiding skills. It was zero percent about how to make money.

I also did the DM class without any intention of working in the dive industry. I did it mostly because it was a way to dive in the Caribbean (Roatan) every day for 2 months for about $700 total, and most of that I worked off fixing regulators for the shop. I did learn some interesting things and became a better diver because of taking it. Mostly, though, it was for fun. I met some interesting people (a few real knuckleheads, too) and generally enjoyed the summer.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I completed my Open Water with RAID and was taught some things resting on my knees in the pool. If I think back to the Open Water dives on the course, i.e. where the theory was put into practice, the drills weren’t conducted with knees or feet on the bottom/silt, however they weren’t conducted in trim either. Buoyancy control was mentioned as important, as it was when I did Perfect Buoyancy with SSI, but I really didn’t comprehend the importance that GUE put on it, until doing Fundies. The RAID online you tube videos on buoyancy are of high quality, but that level of skill wasn’t required to pass open water, nor probably should it be, in my opinion, most beginners don't have 10 weeks to practise hovering. I have watched the documentary on GUE.tv about the GUE rec 1 course, the divers are alot better than I was when finishing RAID OW, but they practised a lot longer too, in my opinion.

This is super disappointing to read. I thought RAID would require instructors to teach trim and buoyancy throughs the course. There is no reason students should ever be placed in the knees. It slows learning.

 

[Heat Miser]

This is super disappointing to read.

Its seems to come down to the instructor and not the agency. But I'm just saying clearly its about time available too.

On the w/e I did a try rEvo rebreather in the pool. Part of the demo was conducted on the knees, because its not that easy to make certain everyone can hover the first time with a rebreathers on their back. And the instructor wanted to demonstrate, swapping stage tanks, plumbing stage tank and turning off oxygen. I think in that circumstance it may have taken us another 2+ hours, for what was scheduled as a 45 minute taste tester.

We are all kids at heart if you make things too difficult, kids can get dis-heartened and give up. If you make it fun so that they feel like they are learning something or accomplishing something new, more people are likely to continue.

Here is a link to an article about Paul Toomer, who appears to be really driving the rec side of Raid, It says when he ran Diving Leisure in London it soon became one of the busiest dive shops in London, doing 1000-1500 certifications a year out of a 900-ft2 (83-m2) space. I fail to believe that all 1500 certificants came out of there with the RAID bouancy skills you see on You-Tube. I can't see how its possible for anyone to get there unless they have 20-30 dives practicing drills each time.

Just keep doing the drill and ignore looking at the marine life. haha

Can this man save the diving industry? Interview with Paul Toomer - DIVER magazine

 

[caydiver]

I too did my DM to improve my diving which I believe it did. It was a goal after doing many specialties. I have no intention of going pro (have instructors in the family now). It was not ever about the money. I too believe a good instructor on any level makes it worthwhile. Generalizations are like the “I think” comments when coming a thinker with no actual experience, they add nothing meaningful.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

We are all kids at heart if you make things too difficult, kids can get dis-heartened and give up. If you make it fun so that they feel like they are learning something or accomplishing something new, more people are likely to continue.

Oh absolutely agreed. A ways back I asked on the instructor to instructor forum about fun ways to have buoyancy skills and use some of the ideas I received. But again, I have found great success, even with difficult student, to never place them on the knees. There are the skin diving exercises first to build confidence and make accomplishments. There are a number of things that can be done at the surface. Then weight them gradually so they slowly start to sink (just takes a couple minutes).

I will also be using one of the techniques that UTD uses where the student floats in the water without a kit, breathing off the long hose with the kit floating on the surface.

There are a number of ideas that if implemented can achieve great results in less time. Agencies just are so slow to adopt and unwilling to change direction. That’s not good.