Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[diverrex]

I'm betting, going forward, that the remaining Truth Aquatics boats will find passing future inspections/certifications rather tougher than before, especially happening so close to the FAA being so throughly called out/exposed when certifying the 737Max airliners as safe and sound.

The stigma now attached to the TA boats cannot be hosed off, no reputable consolidator/trip organizer will risk their business reputation or financial/legal/insurance exposure by booking on the remaining boats, which will be retired from service anyway, either via severe regulations, nobody willing to insure them, or a vanished dive market.

Their boat was clearly dangerous and they just got lucky for a very long time until they got unlucky. The RMS Titantic fully met the lifeboat standards of it's day too (legal/regulatory standards) but sadly didn't meet common sense/reasonable person standards either, it just got 'unlucky' much sooner in it's operational career than did 'Conception'.

That 'over a top bunk' escape hatch was an abomination and will likely turn out to be the world's most expensive 'escape' hatch in human history!

As a California diver who has used Truth Aquatics boats I think the dive market would still use them. They actually have the nicest boats in Southern California except for maybe the Horizon out of San Diego. I would go on a Truth Aquatics trip next week if they were running trips.

 

[BRT]

As a California diver who has used Truth Aquatics boats I think the dive market would still use them. They actually have the nicest boats in Southern California except for maybe the Horizon out of San Diego. I would go on a Truth Aquatics trip next week if they were running trips.

If regulations and inspections get too tough so that costs go too high we will just vote with our fins and go to other countries for live aboard diving.

 

[pauldw]

If regulations and inspections get too tough so that costs go too high we will just vote with our fins and go to other countries for live aboard diving.

I'm sure there are some who will immediately suggest that if you could do that, you'd already be doing it. They should pause to consider that west coast diving (especially northwest, but I'm biased) is spectacular diving for elite divers.

 

[nolatom]

Of course, that's the point of the NTSB. On a major investigation, they will make their recommendations for changes, typically asking the appropriate agency to modify their regulations or step up enforcement of ones in place, but ignored.
Many regulations have their origins in the blood of the victims in prior accidents.

How true your last sentence is. I'm waiting to see if a Formal Board is going to be convened. It's the best way to investigate this "in the sunshine" rather than within the NTSB and Coast Guard bureaucracies. Problems in doing so may be the Coast Guard's status as both investigator and regulator of "T-Boats" such as CONCEPTION, but that's nothing new to them. The NTSB is independent with no regulatory power, and is free to criticize any and all, including the Coast Guard. They're both used to this, even when it gets uncomfortable. But criminal charges or threat of them, may prompt Fifth Amendment claims from witnesses, diminishing the Board's effectiveness.

I hope it all gets worked out and a Board is convened, preferably a joint board or a board convened by CG with NTSB participating and asking questions, or vice-versa. I'd hate to see it all handled behind the scenes, with reports coming out next year or the year after. A prompt public board might also reveal/pin down the cause of the fire, which would allow the industry to make corrections earlier, so as to restore public confidence in these dive boats.

 

[Bob DBF]

If regulations and inspections get too tough so that costs go too high we will just vote with our fins and go to other countries for live aboard diving.

I can see the regulations changing, but the inspections are just check for compliance to the regulations, not make new requirements while they inspect.

The big question is what caused the accident, then how the boat and its crew and procedures need to be changed. Assuming that can be done, it will cost more for the trips, how much remains to be seen. However, it certainly will not be as much as jumping on a plane, going to another country, and paying (at this time) twice as much per day, with a week minimum, rather than the usual long SoCal 3 day trip. This is not taking into account the higher incidental costs of an overseas trip. Oh yeah, now consider whether the standards of Maritime safety are as high in the country visited as they are in the US now, before any changes are made due to this accident.



Bob

 

[BRT]

I can see the regulations changing, but the inspections are just check for compliance to the regulations, not make new requirements while they inspect.

The big question is what caused the accident, then how the boat and its crew and procedures need to be changed. Assuming that can be done, it will cost more for the trips, how much remains to be seen. However, it certainly will not be as much as jumping on a plane, going to another country, and paying (at this time) twice as much per day, with a week minimum, rather than the usual long SoCal 3 day trip. This is not taking into account the higher incidental costs of an overseas trip. Oh yeah, now consider whether the standards of Maritime safety are as high in the country visited as they are in the US now, before any changes are made due to this accident.



Bob

No question the standards in other countries are not as high. That is why a lot of what we used to do is now done in other countries. We all want to be safe. How safe can we afford to be? I'm all in favor of addressing the causes of the fire and addressing alarms for smoke and fire. Complete new boat designs will probably put California live aboard diving out of reach of most people. I understand the three day trip cost $500? That is enough that a lot of people would not be able to afford it. New boat at $1000 and you probably wouldn't need many berths.

 

[Bob DBF]

We all want to be safe. How safe can we afford to be? I'm all in favor of addressing the causes of the fire and addressing alarms for smoke and fire. Complete new boat designs will probably put California live aboard diving out of reach of most people.

I can see the results of the investigation changing regulations and reconfiguring this sized boat for safety considerations, and changing new construction requirements,

I understand the three day trip cost $500? That is enough that a lot of people would not be able to afford it. New boat at $1000 and you probably wouldn't need many berths.

Depends on the trip, San Miguel and Farnsworth Banks cost more due to fuel consumption. A lot of folks can't afford it now, but it is the poor mans liveaboard, and the only way to dive the islands with overnight stays, unless you buy your own boat. Up the price and the clientele will probably not make as many trips, depending on the price increase, which remains a question.

The Truth Aquatics boats also have been chartering with other groups, besides divers, so that may help as well.



Bob

 

[Wookie]

Depends on the trip, San Miguel and Farnsworth Banks cost more due to fuel consumption. A lot of folks can't afford it now, but it is the poor mans liveaboard, and the only way to dive the islands with overnight stays, unless you buy your own boat. Up the price and the clientele will probably not make as many trips, depending on the price increase, which remains a question.

Buying your own boat is no way to save money.

 

[Bob DBF]

Buying your own boat is no way to save money.

I've said that to myself, every time.



Bob

 

[ReefHound]

Buying your own boat is no way to save money.

But then you can go diving anytime for "free"!