Video from a Training Dive with John Chatterton

[CptTightPants21]

Fixed it - that came after trying to condense and get under the max words for a post

There are many instructors out there that teach differently and at the more advanced level, the methods of teaching can vary widely - just like the diving we all do.......

I forget who, but a tech instructor I believe recently talked about taking a deco class in a cave, he requires his students to complete one open water deco dive also - something to the effect that cave deco is easier than open water drift deco, something I never really thought about but it goes to the thought that diving can and is different - one system will never best case apply to all diving.

You the potential tech student that might be reading this - think for yourself as to how you plan to dive in the future, how is this new training going to help you see what you desire to see and see it safely. Search out an instructor that teaches in a way that will benefit you the most - the famous guy might not be it. Find an instructor that will focus on the things you feel are the most critical, I have to believe, the more comfortable you are, the more you'll learn.

That was Kensuf. There is nothing wrong with cave instructors who don’t require a blue water deco dive. In cave, buoyancy should be demonstrated throughout all dives, but there is nothing wrong if the usual deco methods are employed at 20ft. Cave instruction is about cave diving well—that means kicks, tie offs, lost buddy, lost line, OOA, etc. This IS the understanding that there are slightly different methods and conditions depending on location. If anything, this shows that Ken is an extremely thoughtful instructor who wants the to prepare his students to go out in the real world. When you are an instructor your students become your business card. Ken’s students would make Patrick Bateman blush…

Can we stop being vague, dodging the questions, and hiding in generalities? It is disingenuous to the those who have seen the video and misleading to future posters who will read the comments, but not necessarily see the video. We aren’t having a debate about variance in technique like ‘Should I my sling deco bottle on right or left side?’. We aren’t talking about breaking trim while preforming a skill, we aren’t talking about a diver being on their knees in the shallows when they first learn a skill. This is a tech instructor, on one of the final checkout dives of an adv. wreck class, who actively teaches and allows previously deco certified students to go fully on their knees at 130ft for the simple task of dropping and picking up a deco bottle.

If you, Doctor Mike, and a couple others are going to keep defending what we witnessed then you should all stop dillydallying around and have the decency to put it in writing.

“I,________, believe that going fully on your knees to pick up and drop a stage bottle is acceptable scuba behavior and can be actively taught in advanced scuba classes”

 

[johndiver999]

Man your pants really are tight!

 

[Keith.M]

I just tried to watch the video from the OP and it is now marked private?

 

[rddvet]

FYI Now that the furor has died down I took the video down for a bit to fix a couple things. It will be back soon.

Doesn't really matter. Apparently multiple people who are hardcore OK with the problems being discussed haven't even watched it.

I just tried to watch the video from the OP and it is now marked private?

See linked quote above

 

[Zack-Bloom]

This is a tech instructor, on one of the final checkout dives of an adv. wreck class, who actively teaches and allows previously deco certified students to go fully on their knees at 130ft for the simple task of dropping and picking up a deco bottle.

The fundamental implication here is that the students you see in the video are going to translate into the poor divers who frustrate several members of this thread in the caves of North Florida. But I think the point has been made pretty clearly that we left the course with a good understanding of what to improve and none of us have any intention of being those people. So on a practical level, what did Chatterton fail at in his attempt to produce good divers? Who's to say he didn't look at us as divers and make a conscious choice about what level is wisest to hold us to at this moment with all the context required to understand what types of divers we will become?

Do you believe I am wrong about our ability to improve and we will never learn what you describe? Or do you believe it is not possible for someone like Chatterton to use judgement in that way? Please remember that a certification card (particularly the Adv Wreck one) is a token, it's not the goal of diving or learning. We all know people who hold many cards but we wouldn't want to dive with, and people who earn cert cards and then never learn a thing again. One of the great things I learned from my time with Chatterton was it's possible to spend fifty years diving, learning every day. I believe we should be talking about if an instructor is good at making better lifelong divers, not if any particular training dive someone did was perfect.

 

[rddvet]

The fundamental implication here is that the students you see in the video are going to translate into the poor divers who frustrate several members of this thread in the caves of North Florida. But I think the point has been made pretty clearly that we left the course with a good understanding of what to improve and none of us have any intention of being those people. So on a practical level, what did Chatterton fail at in his attempt to produce good divers? Who's to say he didn't look at us as divers and make a conscious choice about what level is wisest to hold us to at this moment with all the context required to understand what types of divers we will become?

Do you believe I am wrong about our ability to improve and we will never learn what you describe? Or do you believe it is not possible for someone like Chatterton to use judgement in that way? Please remember that a certification card (particularly the Adv Wreck one) is a token, it's not the goal of diving or learning. We all know people who hold many cards but we wouldn't want to dive with, and people who earn cert cards and then never learn a thing again. One of the great things I learned from my time with Chatterton was it's possible to spend fifty years diving, learning every day. I believe we should be talking about if an instructor is good at making better lifelong divers, not if any particular training dive someone did was perfect.

Again, no one is saying that you guys are going to be the types of divers we complain about in cave country (I'm sure there's the same complaints in the wreck community). It's purely a discussion on the need to require a basic skill set by an instructor. It's not specifically about you and your friends. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. You need to look at technical diving as a whole. I will use caves as my example because that's where I live. There are many instructors that are passing people with the thoughts that they can take the skills learned and continue to improve, even if they fail miserably at a basic skill. Their thoughts are the students will learn with experience, and I'm sure that's true in many cases. Unfortunately when instructors let that stuff slide, a percentage of those students don't have the care or the knowledge to improve and become the people in cave country we complain and joke about. I acutally took a technical course and we all passed. There was someone in the group that shouldn't have. The instructor made it very clear that that particular student was passing but needed to "fix some problems." When it's a very basic skill that should have already been learned such as buoyancy, it's questionable in my eyes if it'll be learned. A better approach would to have the student spend a little more time with the instructor to get it 100% right. Unfortunately instructors get less students eventually if they are not passing everybody.

 

[In2theabyss]

One of the great things I learned from my time with Chatterton was it's possible to spend fifty years diving, learning every day. I believe we should be talking about if an instructor is good at making better lifelong divers, not if any particular training dive someone did was perfect.

Well said....keep doing what your doing, you cannot please everyone, especially here. Too many personallities and ego's, and then when it comes to JC you have the Gentile-ites to contend with. The purpose of your OP was to share and solicit for input, looks like you got 18 pages worth lol. In your video it looks to me that the training was very well done and John was very involved with each student and that is one of the fundamentals of being a good instructor at least in my book.

 

[CptTightPants21]

The fundamental implication here is that the students you see in the video are going to translate into the poor divers who frustrate several members of this thread in the caves of North Florida. But I think the point has been made pretty clearly that we left the course with a good understanding of what to improve and none of us have any intention of being those people. So on a practical level, what did Chatterton fail at in his attempt to produce good divers? Who's to say he didn't look at us as divers and make a conscious choice about what level is wisest to hold us to at this moment with all the context required to understand what types of divers we will become?

​

Do you believe I am wrong about our ability to improve and we will never learn what you describe? Or do you believe it is not possible for someone like Chatterton to use judgement in that way? Please remember that a certification card (particularly the Adv Wreck one) is a token, it's not the goal of diving or learning. We all know people who hold many cards but we wouldn't want to dive with, and people who earn cert cards and then never learn a thing again. One of the great things I learned from my time with Chatterton was it's possible to spend fifty years diving, learning every day. I believe we should be talking about if an instructor is good at making better lifelong divers, not if any particular training dive someone did was perfect.

Perfection is impossible, but striving for perfection is, well, perfect.

Like it or not, we are what we repeatedly do.

This would make excellence, or failure, more of a habit than a special event. The Greek philosopher, Aristotle, said something similar. If we are going to be successful at diving, we need consistency. We need to learn what it is that we should do, and then try to do it the same way, every time we go diving.

Habits form naturally. It is part of our human psychology. Since we are creatures of habit, we want to develop good habits, not bad ones. Once habits are formed we cannot eliminate them, however we do have the ability to modify them. Over time and with repetition, we can replace bad habits with good habits. We essentially have to outsmart ourselves.

 

[doctormike]

The strange part is actually riding it up and hanging on to it for deco. It just seems like a crutch for a lack of ability in proper ascents and holding stops that just complicates things unnecessarily.

Not sure about the OPs class, but when we did that it was a redundant buoyancy exercise, in case of wing failure, as an alternative to a double bladder wing for a diver in doubles and a wetsuit.

 

[Protondecay123]

“I,Protondecay, believe that numerous POV Warriors on this thread who constantly harangue, nitpick, and basically lose their minds about going fully on your knees to pick up and drop a stage bottle is acceptable scuba behavior and can be actively taught in advanced scuba classes, need to move on and get a life. You’ve made your point now please move on, so some of us who are interested in engaging the OP can do so without the distracting, incessant, screeching chimpanzees.