Questions for the drysuit divers

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Intesresting... I may have order that DVD (it sure looks like the cover of a VHS video... )

Knowing how much lead it takes to sink the suit is a good data point, but doesn't give you an accurate picture of what you need to actually dive with. Some cylinders, for example, end up positively buoyant when they're (nearly) empty), while others are negative.

Do a weight check at the end of your next dive, when you're down to ~500 PSI.

All these interesting answers got me thinking...

I usually dive with HP 119 which helps regarding weight since it doesn't get positively buoyant past 1500 psi. Would it be such a bad thing to add couple of pounds to give me a bit of leeway in terms of air or am I just being too lazy to do things properly ? :-D
 
Would it be such a bad thing to add couple of pounds to give me a bit of leeway in terms of air or am I just being too lazy to do things properly ? :-D
More weight leads to working harder and to higher gas usage. It's not perse bad, it just means less efficiency. I'am assuming you won't take so much lead with you that you will be overeweighted. That's always bad.
 
Intesresting... I may have order that DVD (it sure looks like the cover of a VHS video... )



All these interesting answers got me thinking...

I usually dive with HP 119 which helps regarding weight since it doesn't get positively buoyant past 1500 psi. Would it be such a bad thing to add couple of pounds to give me a bit of leeway in terms of air or am I just being too lazy to do things properly ? :-D

With regard to drysuits. Being over weighted is probably the number one factor in making a drysuit difficult to dive.
For every 1kg you add 1 litre of air.
If you are 2kg over weighted, that is an additional 2 litres of air that has to be dumped when ascending from 10m to the surface (doubling volume), in addition to the gas that would have had to be dumped if you where correctly weighted at the start.

If you look at someone struggling with a drysuit, they are often trapped in a vicious circle.
Uncontrolled ascent = added more lead
More gas in the suit, more difficulty in controlling buoyancy, another uncontrolled ascent = more lead
Repeat.

The first thing to do with a student that has problems, is strip all the lead off and start again. The big issue is that they start to believe the only solution is to be heavier, convincing them otherwise is sometimes very difficult.
 
I also sometimes think people find it difficult to dive a drysuit because we tell them it is.

It is no more difficult, if not easier to dive a drysuit than use a BC. After all, you really only need to add air, on the way down. If the CVD is correctly set, it dumps air automatically on the way up!
 
Well, you described very accurately my erroneous reasoning.
Fortunately, it was just a though and I will not add more lead based on your advice.
Thanks very much !
 
Well, you described very accurately my erroneous reasoning.
Fortunately, it was just a though and I will not add more lead based on your advice.
Thanks very much !

As is said regularly, there is no substitute for a proper buoyancy/weight check.

I finished a dive recently with a new diver (BSAC Ocean Diver) at one of our practice sites. She was a little surprised at the end of the dive when I unhitched all the additional equipment, bailout cylinder, camera etc, and sat them on the bottom in 3m. I then took off a little weight and checked I was still holding a stop at 3m, then 2m then 1m.

It doesn't matter how experienced you are, double checking your weight greatly improves your comfort and your diving.

You don't want to be shrink wrapped into the suit, because that means you have crushed all the air out of the thermal layers (especially in a membrane suit).
 
I now have around 20 dives (maybe more) with my drysuit and it feels much less like a ziplock, which is pretty good. I have been able to control the air bubble. I am getting better with the ascent part ; just to think about it ahead.

Yet, I really hate the queeze on my legs. Only because back kick is really difficult compared with my wet suit. I dove the A.E Vickery couple of weeks ago and I was so happy I didn't go for my drysuit. I felt so much at ease.

Is there something I am missing ? Maybe a crushed neoprene would be a better option for me? (I have a Bare Trilam)
 
. I really hate the queeze on my legs. Only because back kick is really difficult compared with my wet suit. Is there sometthing I am missing?

Put more air in the legs. Adding air eliminates the squeeze. (Assuming your suit has the right size.)
 
I now have around 20 dives (maybe more) with my drysuit and it feels much less like a ziplock, which is pretty good. I have been able to control the air bubble. I am getting better with the ascent part ; just to think about it ahead.

Yet, I really hate the queeze on my legs. Only because back kick is really difficult compared with my wet suit. I dove the A.E Vickery couple of weeks ago and I was so happy I didn't go for my drysuit. I felt so much at ease.

Is there something I am missing ? Maybe a crushed neoprene would be a better option for me? (I have a Bare Trilam)

The paradox of diving a drysuit is that while one can dive more comfortably that is a relative term/perspective.

With a drysuit, comfort comes with being warm and dry but there is more to focus on all around than diving a wetsuit. With a wetsuit you don't have to worry as much about trim, about weight vs comfort, etc. With a drysuit there are lots of little factors that you have to maintain awareness of that add up in the aggregate, but with a wetsuit, you can dive head down/feet down if you wish with little to no consequence and your weight for a given suit will change very little (relatively as the suit is used/ages you may need less lead because the suit becomes less buoyant from repeated compression but it also provides less thermal protection too).

What you are experiencing is normal. The bubble of air is going to rise to the highest point in your suit, it is difficult, especially when first learning to dive a drysuit, to keep the air where you want/need it. Keeping air around your legs to keep the squeeze off and keep them warm can indeed be difficult...it helps to dive in what I call the skydiver position with your knees bent and fins parallel with your back in relatively horizontal trim.

With most drysuits the air bubble is relatively free to shoot around, and it moves rather quick to what seems like small changes in body position, as you gain experience you start to refine your body movement and control and are able to adjust your position withe smaller and smaller movements that will have the bubble moving with a bit more control in your suit. You will also begin to feel when the bubble starts moving and can take corrective action to keep it under control and positioned where you want it.

You will rarely if ever have your suit inflated evenly all around from your neck to your toes, and any part of your body lower than the rest will feel a bit of squeeze. The thickness of your undersuit will play a role in how much you feel or are affected by that squeeze as a thicker undersuit will provide padding against the squeeze of the suit.

The difference between diving wet and diving dry is a trade-off between on type of comfort vs another. As mentioned, a wetsuit is much easier to dial in and dive (especially at the beginning), but depending on where one dives it may limit the season, a drysuit on the other hand can keep you toasty and dry but is more work and has a steeper learning curve.

I dive a an Aqualung Fusion Bullet...it is membrane suit with an overskin in 1mm neoprene. The neoprene is primarily to protect and streamline the suit to the body. I find that because of the neoprene outer layer keeping the drysuit layer more form fit, the air bubble in my suit travels around much slower than with other types of suits. This made learning to dive a drysuit a bit easier...but there was still a learning curve. Not everyone likes the Fusion suits...from my reading, most either love or hate them. I really like mine. You might want to look into them as possible solution to the problems you are experiencing.

Diving dry can be very comfortable, but I don't think it is as comfortable as much in the ways many people who have never dived dry expect it would be. Despite being familiar with using a surface drysuit (whitewater kayaking) I had this idea that I would don my drysuit and dive enrobed in a bubble of air. That thought quickly dissipated from my mind after my first dive in a drysuit.

As others have mentioned there are 2 schools of thought on buoyancy management with a dry suit. One school is to use the BCD for buoyancy and the suit for comfort, the other is to use the suit for comfort and buoyancy. While there are pros and cons to both the reality is that if you add air or release air from your suit that it has an impact on your buoyancy...how much of an impact is dependent on how much air is add or released and how deep or shallow you are in the water column. I find that above 20 meters I need to add air to my suit to prevent squeeze and provide warmth, this same air is balancing out my buoyancy so that I am neutral in the water column, I don't have to add air to my wing to compensate because the air in my suit is doing double duty. Below 20 meters the changes in buoyancy as one descend become increasingly smaller because the relative change in pressure around the diver are smaller...I find that below 20 meters I don't necessarily have to add more air to my suit to offset squeeze and provide warmth, so instead at that point I start adding air to my wing to manage buoyancy.

It is also important to note that changes in your undersuit can have a dramatic affect on the buoyancy of your suit as the volume of air trapped in your undersuit will provide positive buoyancy, especially at the beginning AND end of the dive. This affects how you weight yourself. You should be carrying enough ballast to be able to maintain neutral buoyancy at your safety stop depth with the level of comfort you desire. The level of comfort you desire is an important decision because if you are underweighted for your cold tolerance you will have a hard time staying down for the safety stop, as divers figure this out they sometimes have to resort to cradling a rock or two in their arms to counteract being too positively buoyant. You need to figure out how much air you need in your suit for a given water temperature with your tank at whatever volume you plan to end the dive with along with how much weight you need to counter that to be neutrally buoyant. Be sure to make notes in your dive log regarding end tank volume/pressure, type of tank, what undersuit you wore and water temp...all that information will eventually be second nature to you but until then your dive log will be a great resource to help you figure out how much lead you need to wear.

-Z
 
@Zef Thanks for the thorough answer. I greatly appreciate your input.

I'll continue to dive my trilam with all that in mind. You make a great point when you mention the comfort level and expectations. I wasn't expecting the legs to be so compressed tbh and I guess it take some time to get used to it. Maybe a different type of drysuit (like a compressed neoprene) would be better for me... It would be interesting to compare the two.

Thanks again ! :)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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