And so it begins. Panic in the California dive boat industry

[Eric Sedletzky]

How cheap are CA divers?

No cheaper than anybody else, but it does cost more to live here so that leaves less money for recreation. At some point we have to weigh whether or not it’s worth it for just a little more money to fly somewhere with warm water.

The thing is, those Socal boats are all showing their age. You can only get so much money per trip with a older boat that was designed in an era when there were nothing but a bunch of rowdy locals going out and hunting who didn’t mind cramped quarters and a bare bones approach. The lack of amenities meant that the trips were cheaper, so people could go out once a month and not break the bank. It’s still like that somewhat with the exception of people new to the sport who just want to get out and have fun on a local boat trip and plug all their devices in on a strip cord.
If they built all new boats and upgraded everything including all the amenities to rival some of the big international luxury LOB’s, would there really be a market to help pay for that?
Is it the quality of the aged and spartan dive boats keeping people from visiting CA and getting on a boat, or is it the cold water and lack of tropical oceanic features that keep it from becoming an international dive destination?
I hear that some of the tropical coral pretty fish places aren’t doing so hot. Is it possible that CA might get more business now and can justify a more upgraded dive boat fleet?

 

[drbill]

I think that's a terrible way to operate. All passengers should participate in a safety briefing before leaving the dock, or shortly thereafter. That's what's done on cruise ships, and if I recall, on all the (non-CA) liveaboards I have been on. I know it wouldn't have made a difference in the Conception outcome.

As I wrote, there were crew members present when we boarded and we were given a basic safety briefing (although I went on these boats often enough to know what to do)

 

[KenGordon]

Really?

It was a real question. In the U.K. a large number of divers are price sensitive and will spend a lot of time to save £50, some of course will spend a lot to save £50 . I have no idea about the demographic of CA divers. Would doubling the cost to make it work really be an issue? Would they all fly to the Caribbean instead? Comparing Scapa boats which take 12 divers, they are only slightly cheaper than a week in the Red Sea but none the less are booked up a year or more ahead.

There is a lot of comment on here basically saying that modifications to enhance safety would increase costs and destroy the business. I am questioning that.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Out of curiosity, and maybe this is a topic for another thread, but what would you build into a new boat that this boat couldn’t have been retrofit to?

This boat could have been built yesterday and the exact same rules would have been followed.

The grandfathering that everyone is jumping on is mostly about fire protection, and requires a CO2 system in the engineroom. If the Conception were built new today, as far as I can tell, it could be built exactly as it was.

Steel or aluminum construction and a redesigned bunkroom where are several fire exits directly to the outside. New upgraded electrical system to handle todays power needs. Vented closet spaces for hanging boat coats etc. so nothing is hanging out in the open and causing clutter in the cabin/salon, unless it’s hanging outside along the cabin side perhaps. A dedicated charging room with charging stations.
No more plywood boats.

 

[Wookie]

Steel or aluminum construction and a redesigned bunkroom where are several fire exits directly to the outside. New upgraded electrical system to handle todays power needs. Vented closet spaces for hanging boat coats etc. so nothing is hanging out in the open and causing clutter in the cabin/salon, unless it’s hanging outside along the cabin side perhaps. A dedicated charging room with charging stations.
No more plywood boats.

But what you’re asking for is a wishlist. The statement was made and backed up that the older boats have had their day. My question is, and maybe it’s a statement, that if the Conception were built today or let’s say the plans were approved 6 months ago and were being constructed today, it could be built exactly as it was when it burned.

The wiring used today in passenger boats is still made by the exact same company in Louisiana that it was 40 years ago. Granted, if the wiring were 40 years newer, it would be 40 years newer. Maybe that makes it better, maybe not.

My point is that a Conception built 2 years ago might look exactly like a Conception built 40 years ago. And if the Coast Guard said “all wiring has to be renewed every 10 years”, it could be. Age of the vessel doesn’t enter into that. And if the Coast Guard requires a grand ballroom staircase at each end of berthing, that could be done, or as I suggested earlier in one thread or another, an escape trunk leading to outside the galley, it’s doable on an older vessel.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

But what you’re asking for is a wishlist. The statement was made and backed up that the older boats have had their day. My question is, and maybe it’s a statement, that if the Conception were built today or let’s say the plans were approved 6 months ago and were being constructed today, it could be built exactly as it was when it burned.

The wiring used today in passenger boats is still made by the exact same company in Louisiana that it was 40 years ago. Granted, if the wiring were 40 years newer, it would be 40 years newer. Maybe that makes it better, maybe not.

My point is that a Conception built 2 years ago might look exactly like a Conception built 40 years ago. And if the Coast Guard said “all wiring has to be renewed every 10 years”, it could be. Age of the vessel doesn’t enter into that. And if the Coast Guard requires a grand ballroom staircase at each end of berthing, that could be done, or as I suggested earlier in one thread or another, an escape trunk leading to outside the galley, it’s doable on an older vessel.

I don’t know if those layout plans would be acceptable today or not. The hull yes fine, but the house layout? I don’t know the current rules. I don’t know if wood frame/plywood construction would be acceptable today or not for a commercial passenger vessel. In my opinion there are too many variables with wood products as far as material suitable for marine use. All frames need to be KD-VG, 3/4 sawn, no knots or crazy grain, and there are only a few choices of wood that can be used, and all of it has soared in price per board ft. Some of it has disappeared from the market entirely. All fasteners are required to be silicon bronze for salt water exposure. The proper plywood is virtually non existent in this day and age. You can’t just go to Home Depot and buy everything you need to build a wood boat.

The one thing that we have better now than they did then is epoxy resin technology. West system and Smith are great stuff and some of the repairs I’ve had to do on wood boats would be very tough to do without it.

Steel is still my favorite.

 

[NAM001]

With more advanced features, comes higher power requirements, which has resulted in computers that use a li-ion battery. Most higher end computers have gone to a rechargerable battery.

I can get 2-3 days out of my Teric battery, but I like to charge it every night. It is better for the battery, and for my piece of mind.

My rechargeable items I would bring on a liveaboard:
Directly Dive Related-
Teric * 2
Primary Dive light
Back up dive lights * 2
Emergency Dive Light - Kept in my pouch just for signalling
GoPro Camera

Not directly dive related
Phone - Used for getting GPS locations of dive sites
Tablet - Entertainment, video editing, and dive logging
Computer - Probably won't pulled out much but I can't go anywhere without a computer due to work.
Smartwatch - I could leave it off, but it can easily charge while I am diving.

That may seem like a lot to some, but liveaboards are a customer service industry, often focusing on the higher end consumer. The operators that figure out a safe way to allow charging 24/7 are the ones that divers are going to prefer.

You have a good point. Unfortunately when someone does that with out being mandated it often leads to a back fire of some sorts. It would be much like a school bus putting seat belts in the bus and then getting sued for wrongful death in an accident. If he did that on his own he caused the problem if he did it because of a mandate then he was complying with law and not causing further risk. In addition when it is a mandate people do not comply by buying what they think is he best option they look at what is approved and buy that whether it works or not in order to be seen as full compliance using a recommended device. The folks that make devices that get that approval seal now sells at over priced costs not because of what it worth as a device but what it is worth in a litigation. operators in any line of work get gouged through fear of litigation. It is so much better to get a solution that does not generate in the case of chargers a 5 thousand dollar ul / cg approved charging containment system that must be operated in conjunction with a matched 8000$ charging unit.

n regards to batteries i have found that if I accidently put it in the charger backwards the battery is from that point no longer usable. It is like an internal fuse blew from over current. others i have had makes no difference, both batteries look alike. I wish there was a test you can do to see which batteries had the saftety device in it so I could trash the ones that dont. From athat aspect no operator knows whether the batteries coming aboard are protected or not in its design. If you dont know you cant screen them as passengers come onboard. It leaves all in one heck of a position when it comes to safety of these things. Perhaps the solution is for the boat to have its own charger that they know will not allow high charger/battery related current rates and thus prevent fires.

 

[Wookie]

I don’t know if those layout plans would be acceptable today or not. The hull yes fine, but the house layout? I don’t know the current rules. I don’t know if wood frame/plywood construction would be acceptable today or not for a commercial passenger vessel. In my opinion there are too many variables with wood products as far as material suitable for marine use. All frames need to be KD-VG, 3/4 sawn, no knots or crazy grain, and there are only a few choices of wood that can be used, and all of it has soared in price per board ft. Some of it has disappeared from the market entirely. All fasteners are required to be silicon bronze for salt water exposure. The proper plywood is virtually non existent in this day and age. You can’t just go to Home Depot and buy everything you need to build a wood boat.

The one thing that we have better now than they did then is epoxy resin technology. West system and Smith are great stuff and some of the repairs I’ve had to do on wood boats would be very tough to do without it.

Steel is still my favorite.

Your point is well taken, and I wouldn’t know or understand wood construction if it bit me. My point is that you could build a wood boat within the rules if you had the desire. I am not a fan of steel only because I understand the dive boat industry, and watched the Nekton boats waste away through neglect or ignorance. I’m a big aluminum boat fan, which can also be problematic through neglect or ignorance.

 

[NAM001]

actually, most countries are not near as "close enough" on speed limits as it is here in the states. In fact that was a surprise when I moved here.

It would be silly to have a 8 hr all nighter watch person and expect them to stay moving on a small vessel with small crew. Alongside or anchor you can do a 2 hour watch that rotates for the roving watchman. The master and mate can divide the day into watches however they wish for steaming/anchor as long as each gets adequate sleep. Alongside the Master and mate can also partake in the roving watch schedule, meaning that everyone gets LOTS of rest. It isn't a hardship at all.

Let's take conception, 6 crew, master and mate at sea and anchor one needs to be awake. That leaves 4 people to divide the night roving watch and 3 the day (the cook is busy). Yeah, it's long days but you can still ensure that all crew get 8 hours a day sleep, even if in 2 segments.

That brings it down to the integrity of the watch. and if they work for tips there is not much to protect by the watch doing a good job because there is no pay to lose. IE what is there to promote a waitress in a dive to get your order right when they get paid 3 dollars an hour + tips?

 

[cerich]

That brings it down to the integrity of the watch. and if they work for tips there is not much to protect by the watch doing a good job because there is no pay to lose. IE what is there to promote a waitress in a dive to get your order right when they get paid 3 dollars an hour + tips?

Actually the watchkeeper gets more tips overlooking things like a power strip, passageways blocked with kit, charging phone in bed by passengers than they get if they do their job.