Primary or alternate donate poll

[Outbound]

For the Air2 divers following this thread (I started this way too, back when): map out in your mind how you will handle a TRUE OOA, where your sole source of both air (after donating primary) and venting your bcd will be your Air2.

1) you and buddy will probably be with your right arms in an Indian handshake, horizontal or vertical. That means only one free hand.
2) your buddy can't add air to their bcd if they were negative at the time of failure, so you'll be establishing neutral buoyancy with the same toy that's in your mouth.
3) you will be venting from your bcd on the way up (as will they), but you are venting using the toy in your mouth (butt and shoulder dumps are usually too coarse for maintaining neutral on ascent).

Will you have to remove it from your mouth to get it higher than the bubble in the top of your bcd/wing? If so, you'll be doing that a lot in the last 30 feet. Will you be venting for your buddy too, because they're panicked or task saturated? Do you really want your reg in and out of your mouth during that time?

That's why I've gotten rid of my Air2/SS1/Airsource3. It also really wasn't more streamlined than a second reg under my chin, since the hose had to be longer than my bcd corrugated hose to give adequate head movement when in use. I want my octo on a necklace right under my chin. I donate either 40" or 7' via my primary. There's something reassuring about having a panicked OOA Instabuddy as far away as possible. (EDIT: just kidding)

(...while checking ascent rate on my Perdix AI) (not kidding)

My 2¢.

I don't use an AIR2 primarily because I don't like the idea of having two divers without working regs in their mouths at the same time when with a regular octo you just have the out of air diver in that situation. And, secondarily, I don't like the idea of having a really short primary hose going to your buddy (but I suppose that issue can be solved by using a longer primary hose). But I gotta disagree with the usual warning that using an AIR2 means you won't have a way to adequately control buoyancy. Provided your BCD has a shoulder dump, I don't see why it would be a problem. I primarily drysuit dive and use my suit for buoyancy, but when wetsuit diving and using my BCD for buoyancy, I always use my dump valve to adjust as I ascend, mostly because I hate having to get nearly vertical and then to lift the hose up to get air out of it. With the shoulder valve, I just have to tilt up and to the side a tiny bit and it vents easily. I can maintain better trim that way. I have no problems whatsoever. Sure, they dump air faster than the inflator hose, but it is really easy to adjust for that and to get used to it. At least that's been my experience.

 

[Outbound]

Ahaha!

I'm just a rec diver with no tech ambition. My husband and I have been diving a 7-ft hose for over a decade because our dive shop is a big proponent of it, trains with it (though not required), and it just made sense. I like the backup on a necklace--keeps it handy and a girl likes a little "jewelry." That said, I pair my long hose with a back inflate BC (not BP/W) and split fins. Seriously, yes, split fins.

Also, I wonder if responses would have been different if you had posted this in the "basic" section. This one tends to get tech-heavy, so I don't visit it as often as a strictly rec diver.

You will die if you use split fins, donchaknow. They are the absolute worst entanglement risk known to mankind.

Obviously I'm joking. It always amuses me that people say that split fins are an entanglement hazard. Can't the same be said of the posts where straps/bungees connect to the fin? I don't see anyone advising that tech divers switch to full-foot fins to reduce that risk.

 

[PfcAJ]

You will die if you use split fins, donchaknow. They are the absolute worst entanglement risk known to mankind.

Obviously I'm joking. It always amuses me that people say that split fins are an entanglement hazard. Can't the same be said of the posts where straps/bungees connect to the fin? I don't see anyone advising that tech divers switch to full-foot fins to reduce that risk.

ACKSHUALLY.....

Spring heels with no straps or buckles are preferred. Sheck Exley even advocated for the taping of fin and mask straps to reduce snags.

 

[Outbound]

ACKSHUALLY.....

Spring heels with no straps or buckles are preferred. Sheck Exley even advocated for the taping of fin and mask straps to reduce snags.

Well, I stand corrected!

 

[potato cod]

You will die if you use split fins, donchaknow. They are the absolute worst entanglement risk known to mankind.

Obviously I'm joking. It always amuses me that people say that split fins are an entanglement hazard. Can't the same be said of the posts where straps/bungees connect to the fin? I don't see anyone advising that tech divers switch to full-foot fins to reduce that risk.

Well, I am going to die. No one gets out alive, I suppose.

Entanglement hazard? I don't get it. I am agile enough to bend towards my foot and release either the entangling line, bit of wreck, or whatever. Or, inexplicably failing that, I can reach and release the back strap to free my foot. I'll then fin in circles, of course.

 

[hammet]

For the Air2 divers following this thread (I started this way too, back when): map out in your mind how you will handle a TRUE OOA, where your sole source of both air (after donating primary) and venting your bcd will be your Air2.

1) you and buddy will probably be with your right arms in an Indian handshake, horizontal or vertical. That means only one free hand.
2) your buddy can't add air to their bcd if they were negative at the time of failure, so you'll be establishing neutral buoyancy with the same toy that's in your mouth.
3) you will be venting from your bcd on the way up (as will they), but you are venting using the toy in your mouth (butt and shoulder dumps are usually too coarse for maintaining neutral on ascent).

Will you have to remove it from your mouth to get it higher than the bubble in the top of your bcd/wing? If so, you'll be doing that a lot in the last 30 feet. Will you be venting for your buddy too, because they're panicked or task saturated? Do you really want your reg in and out of your mouth during that time?

That's why I've gotten rid of my Air2/SS1/Airsource3. It also really wasn't more streamlined than a second reg under my chin, since the hose had to be longer than my bcd corrugated hose to give adequate head movement when in use. I want my octo on a necklace right under my chin. I donate either 40" or 7' via my primary. There's something reassuring about having a panicked OOA Instabuddy as far away as possible. (EDIT: just kidding)


(...while checking ascent rate on my Perdix AI) (not kidding)

My 2¢.

I did my rescue class some time ago, and the girl I was paired up had an Air2 and the scenario you described is very accurate to what I experienced. I was the unconscious diver on the bottom and in order to get my heavy ass off the bottom she would have to inflate my BCD a bit. Now as we got to the surface, she had to worry about my BCD, her own BCD, and how the heck to breath all at the same time.

 

[hammet]

It seems a lot of times alternate donate could also be:

Alternate donate:
Step1: Grab alternate to donate, whoops it's not there, go find it flapping in the wind or dragging in the sand, Grab alternate to donate
Step 2. Donate Alternate

With primary, step 1 would never happen. It's not supposed to happen with alternate either, but I see octos flapping around on near every dive!

Not to cause embarrassment to any one, but I was diving with a VERY prominent and very experienced SB member recently who was rigged for primary donate and I had to remind him to attach his octo to his necklace just as he was about to splash. So, being geared up improperly really should not reflect the advantages or disadvantages of either method.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Not to cause embarrassment to any one, but I was diving with a VERY prominent and very experienced SB member recently who was rigged for primary donate and I had to remind him to attach his octo to his necklace just as he was about to splash. So, being geared up improperly really should not reflect the advantages or disadvantages of either method.

A fair point. I'm ashamed to admit I did a very similar thing some years back. During a tech dive a while back, I was trailing a buddy and decided to do a routine valve drill. After shutting off my primary, I reached for my backup only to realise it wasn't there. I searched around for a while wondering where it was when my buddy turned round and, after looking slightly puzzled, smiled and gave me the universal sign for "you're a total ownerist". He then casually turned my air back on whilst reaching behind and retrieving my backup from behind me.

Morale of the story, we're all twats just waiting for Darwin to join us for a dive.

 

[EFX]

That's why I've gotten rid of my Air2/SS1/Airsource3. It also really wasn't more streamlined than a second reg under my chin, since the hose had to be longer than my bcd corrugated hose to give adequate head movement when in use. I want my octo on a necklace right under my chin. I donate either 40" or 7' via my primary. There's something reassuring about having a panicked OOA Instabuddy as far away as possible. (EDIT: just kidding)

I dove with a ScubaPro Nighthawk for years which had an air2. I practised with it and I didn't like the pull on the reg from the corrugated BCD hose. I felt if I turned my head too far the reg would pop out. So, I bit down on the reg to prevent this. I eventually switched to a BP/wing, 7 ft primary and bungeed secondary. No pulling, no fumbling, no problem.

 

[divingjd]

I was taught to donate the primary, because it worked regardless of gear configuration. It appears that did not take into consideration a full-face mask, but otherwise, I still think it is the most universally-applicable donation method. My gear configuration has changed over time, but the donation method has not. The OOA diver going after the obvious reg in your mouth was discussed as a secondary reason to donate the primary, but the main reason was the application to different gear configurations. I was also taught, whenever confronted with a new buddy, to discuss donation methods, weight systems, and other buddy-check items, and have always done it with new buddies. Buddy checks and practice are necessary regardless.