Primary or alternate donate poll

Primary or alternate donate

  • Primary

    Votes: 216 74.7%
  • Alternate

    Votes: 73 25.3%

  • Total voters
    289

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I am surprised at the lopsided results already.


You get a big skew on Scubaboarders as a sample group too - tend towards scuba junkies/tech divers way into the pros and cons thing. (Cult like behavior occasionally exhibited.). Average rec diver uses alternate overwhelmingly just like vast majority dive a standard jacket BC. They’re not on Scubaboard percentage wise as much us addicts and they’re far less opinionated or knowledgeable on nuances.
 
Exactly - each system has advantages and disadvantages. The problem with all of them is lack of training & practise.

If you have a "traditional" rig and don't practise there is a good chance it will all go wrong in an emergency.
If you have a long hose and don't practise there is a good chance it will all go wrong in an emergency.
If you have a pony and don't practise there is a good chance it will all go wrong in an emergency.
If you have an Air2 or similar and don't practise there is a hell of a good chance of it all going wrong in an emergency.
Yup. I agree completely with what you said. I don't really care what system people use, and I don't have a horse in the race. It's all about preferences, knowing the pros and cons of each, and training and practicing. What I don't care for is the often bogus claims about why a long hose and primary donate are inherently better. I had one person tell me that primary donate is better because you are giving a reg that you know is working to the "victim." Okay. But then, by that same argument, you are putting your alternate - which you don't know to be working - in your mouth and hoping for the best. That's not an argument for primate donate. There may be arguments for primate donate, but that sure isn't one of them. Another one I hear is that with primary donate you put your alternate on a necklace so it's easily accessible. That sounds very reasonable to me. But that itself isn't a reason for primary donate - at best it's a reason to put your alternate on a necklace. One doesn't necessarily have to do with the other.
 
Yup. I agree completely with what you said. I don't really care what system people use, and I don't have a horse in the race. It's all about preferences, knowing the pros and cons of each, and training and practicing. What I don't care for is the often bogus claims about why a long hose and primary donate are inherently better. I had one person tell me that primary donate is better because you are giving a reg that you know is working to the "victim." Okay. But then, by that same argument, you are putting your alternate - which you don't know to be working - in your mouth and hoping for the best. That's not an argument for primate donate. There may be arguments for primate donate, but that sure isn't one of them. Another one I hear is that with primary donate you put your alternate on a necklace so it's easily accessible. That sounds very reasonable to me. But that itself isn't a reason for primary donate - at best it's a reason to put your alternate on a necklace. One doesn't necessarily have to do with the other.

I’m not saying primary donate is better, I’m just attempting to fill in some holes in what you’ve been told. My alternate is on a necklace and I breath from it for a couple of minutes during each dive (dive day for multiple dives) to make sure it is working as expected. Not just topside before the dive. Also, because it is on a necklace, I know it is not full of sand because of it getting out of its pocket and dragging along the bottom.
Regarding alternate on a necklace so it’s easily accessible, as you said, this is a reason to put your alternate on a necklace. By default it is not donatable when on a necklace, therefore you have to donate your primary.
Again, I’m not arguing one way or the other, or trying to convince anyone, just trying to fill in some holes.

Erik
 
I’m not saying primary donate is better, I’m just attempting to fill in some holes in what you’ve been told. My alternate is on a necklace and I breath from it for a couple of minutes during each dive (dive day for multiple dives) to make sure it is working as expected. Not just topside before the dive. Also, because it is on a necklace, I know it is not full of sand because of it getting out of its pocket and dragging along the bottom.
Regarding alternate on a necklace so it’s easily accessible, as you said, this is a reason to put your alternate on a necklace. By default it is not donatable when on a necklace, therefore you have to donate your primary.
Again, I’m not arguing one way or the other, or trying to convince anyone, just trying to fill in some holes.

Erik
Thanks for your response. I should have been a little more precise in my post. I like what you wrote and how you wrote it: you provide a good reason for putting your alternate on a necklace, and because of that setup you have to use primary donate. That makes total sense to me. But the argument in this case is one centered on securing and managing your alternate. It doesn't make primary donate better; it just makes it mandatory. My point above (poorly stated) was that too often I hear arguments about why primary donate and a long hose are better for rec diving (I completely understand the reasons for this setup for tech diving, especially where penetration dives are done). To my ears, the only real argument to be made in this case is about properly securing your alternate, which you make.

In the end, to each his/her own.
 
To my ears, the only real argument to be made in this case is about properly securing your alternate, which you make.

That's my thoughts too.
I think most of the divers I've encountered that had their alternate free were never taught (or it wasn't stressed) the importance of securing their alternate.
 
The one big issue for LH primary donate with Rec diving, is the assumption that the receiver (victim), will once having been given a working air source, remain calm and make a controlled ascent with the donor, not requiring any positive physical contact

If however the receiver can't do that, then you need to remain in physical contact, to provide reassurance, and maintain control, in which case a overly long hose is a waste of time (IMO 40" with a swivel) is optimum.

You're assuming that the donor with the LH will stay at the maximum distance from the receiver. He doesn't have to. The LH gives you choices. I don't see how having a LH is a waste of time. In fact, if properly trained the LH can be deployed toward an OOA diver faster than fumbling for an octo that's clipped somewhere with some kind of fastener.
 
My point above (poorly stated) was that too often I hear arguments about why primary donate and a long hose are better for rec diving (I completely understand the reasons for this setup for tech diving, especially where penetration dives are done). To my ears, the only real argument to be made in this case is about properly securing your alternate, which you make.

For tech divers sharing gas through a restriction is easier and required but what most people fail to understand, and I've experienced this, is rec divers occasionally go through restrictions that would be very difficult if not impossible to do with typical short hose gas sharing. Does the devil's throat in Cozumel come to mind?
 
What I don't care for is the often bogus claims about why a long hose and primary donate are inherently better. I had one person tell me that primary donate is better because you are giving a reg that you know is working to the "victim." Okay. But then, by that same argument, you are putting your alternate - which you don't know to be working - in your mouth and hoping for the best. That's not an argument for primate donate.

I don't think the reasons are bogus claims. They may be for you because you don't see the advantages (which I've pointed out in another post) for your type of diving. I always breathe off of my necklaced alternate at the beginning of every dive. I want to know if it works because that is my life line if my buddy needs my primary. If it doesn't breathe the dive is over for me and my buddy, unless my buddy can join another diver(s). I'm sure there are some divers that don't know and haven't tested their alternates under water, but I would guess there are less octo divers testing theirs.
 
I don't think the reasons are bogus claims. They may be for you because you don't see the advantages (which I've pointed out in another post) for your type of diving. I always breathe off of my necklaced alternate at the beginning of every dive. I want to know if it works because that is my life line if my buddy needs my primary. If it doesn't breathe the dive is over for me and my buddy, unless my buddy can join another diver(s). I'm sure there are some divers that don't know and haven't tested their alternates under water, but I would guess there are less octo divers testing theirs.
Again, that's not an argument for primary donate, or even for putting your alternate on a necklace. It's an argument for making sure your alternate works.
 
Admittedly, while I always tested my alternate above water, when I dived traditional I did NOT breath from it during a dive as a test. I breath from my bungee every dive. I do so at the end of the dive in preparation to doffing to be handed up to the boat, but I also do switches at depth for practice.
That's a good point I overlooked...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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