Why give primary instead of alternate regulator?

[leadduck]

I saw a facebook post about a failed alternate-take air share two days ago. Initially, the OP's mouthpiece came off the reg and she sucked in only water, no air. She swam to the dive guide and took his alternate reg, which unfortunately was on a necklace with a short hose. She pulled it out easily, but because of the short hose it turned into a mess quickly and both divers popped to the surface. The guide was a cave diver, but hadn't briefed the group about his setup before the dive.

Her first mistake was of course to approach the guide at all---she could've simply switched to her own octo. But that didn't come to her mind under stress.

Suddenly needing another diver's air quickly is a beginner's problem. They forget to check their SPG or forget that they can use their own octo if the main reg fails. Experienced divers may need to share gas too but the diver in need sees it coming in advance and there's plenty of time to signal and perform a clean slow primary-donate procedure. That's what the DIR system is optimized for.

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As for getting "mugged", well, yes. This is what I'm talking about being ready for and while I haven't been diving with that many beginners lately, it used to be much more common to be in the water with new to newer divers and I've still not seen such a thing.

I suspect some instructors have done but what of the rest of you Joe Blow divers out there?

I've asked many times in this thread, who has had it happen to them. So far just lowviz with his kid, and was only a hose grab.

In rescue class we include primary-take as one challenge if the student wants to. Some other diver acts as an impolite OOA noob and mugs the reg from the student from behind, but not violently. Never caused a problem.
Only once a diver fooled around and got the reg pulled from his mouth a bit roughly (one on a short hose that he had just stolen from another diver). His reaction was weird: a kind of catatonic passive panic. No movement, just a blank stare, would not accept an offered reg, nor take his own which was floating right in front of his face. We pulled him to the surface and then ashore. No damage done, but that was a near miss.
I never tell a buddy to simply pull out my primary regulator as if this was my preferred method for air sharing.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

catatonic passive panic.

Saw that once (different scenario). Then went into active panic.

 

[Bob DBF]

I've asked many times in this thread, who has had it happen to them. So far just lowviz with his kid, and was only a hose grab

You might want to reread post #69.


Bob

 

[chillyinCanada]

You might want to reread post #69.


Bob

Thanks Bob. Anyone else?

 

[RogueClimber]

I saw a facebook post about a failed alternate-take air share two days ago. Initially, the OP's mouthpiece came off the reg and she sucked in only water, no air. She swam to the dive guide and took his alternate reg, which unfortunately was on a necklace with a short hose. She pulled it out easily, but because of the short hose it turned into a mess quickly and both divers popped to the surface. The guide was a cave diver, but hadn't briefed the group about his setup before the dive.

Her first mistake was of course to approach the guide at all---she could've simply switched to her own octo. But that didn't come to her mind under stress......

This scenario presents another potential reason for utilizing primary donate: If you have in your mind giving up your primary and automatically moving on to your secondary you avoid the above as you don't forget about your secondary. It is automatic to go to your secondary when you lose your primary for any reason.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Thanks Bob. Anyone else?

I fortunately have never had to deal with anyone OOG, but the people whom I know (mind you, you can count them with fingers on one hand even if you worked at a mill). All 3 were mugged.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I fortunately have never had to deal with anyone OOG, but the people whom I know (mind you, you can count them with fingers on one hand even if you worked at a mill). All 3 were mugged.

Instructors, students, DM's?

Do you recall the details?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Instructors, students, DM's?

Do you recall the details?

Just people out diving from a boat. Someone (not their dive buddy) wound up OOG and came up behind them over their shoulder and ripped out their reg. No one approached them from the front. This is just 3 people/instances, not a significant sample size.

 

[Storker]

Just people out diving from a boat. Someone (not their dive buddy) wound up OOG and came up behind them over their shoulder and ripped out their reg. No one approached them from the front. This is just 3 people/instances, not a significant sample size.

Another good reason not to dive as one sheep in a flock trailing their leader. And finally a benefit of diving in moderate vis...

 

[chillyinCanada]

Another good reason not to dive as one sheep in a flock trailing their leader. And finally a benefit of diving in moderate vis...

I hadn't thought of it but I like to hang in the back, often quite far back if in a group and conditions allow.

As long as no group sneaks up on me from behind (unlikely I did not notice), I'm probably not going to get mugged that way. I love it when a plan accidentally comes together.