New to the board, not new to diving

[PBcatfish]

I've been diving a looong time, but I kind of got away from it for a while. Several months ago, some friends got me back into it on a regular basis again. I still remember how to dive alright, but I'm a little out of touch on some of the current common practices & accepted prejudices. A few things seem to have have changed over the years.

I'm old school enough that I still remember the Padi dive table numbers from back when they were the same as the Navy dive table numbers & I still dive on tables more than I use a computer. My perspective is a little off in that back in the day, guys at dive shops used to pester me into buying tank boots because they swore that if I didn't do that, a nick in the bottom of a tank was going to make it fail an inspection. Now they warn you not to use a boot to avoid corrosion that might make the tank fail. Fortunately, the laws of physics haven't changed & actual diving still works the same way it always did. The story tellers just have a little different spin on things & some expectations are a little different.

It was kind of funny, dropping off a 35 year old regulator for a regular service & asking if the shop worked on antiques. It turns out that they do, but the girl at the counter looked a bit puzzled when she didn't see a computer on the rig. It just had a pressure gauge, a depth gauge, a compass, & a watch. I think that she has probably only been diving a few years & may not know that you can dive safely without a computer. She got further spooked because I didn't have a power inflation hose on that particular regulator. I still don't mind manually inflating a BC either. Not all of my BCs even have power inflate connectors. The girl seemed genuinely concerned when I turned down her suggestion to get a power inflate hose added. ...kids

Since then, I've upped my game a little by getting some bigger high pressure tanks, a new regulator that is designed to take that kind of abuse, some modern fins & a mixed gas certification. I had to do that to keep up with "the guys". So far, so good.

Finding Scubaboard was a real blessing. This place provides a wealth of information. Two thumbs up.

 

[TMHeimer]

Funny stuff! I meet up with my (younger...) brother once each summer in NY and we do a dive day. He had been inactive since the 80s until we started this. Says he doesn't like the power inflator but obviously uses it-- prefers orally. Interesting.

 

[Leighen]

but the girl at the counter looked a bit puzzled when she didn't see a computer on the rig. It just had a pressure gauge, a depth gauge, a compass, & a watch. I think that she has probably only been diving a few years & may not know that you can dive safely without a computer.

I doubt that's the reason. Divers don't use computers because they're safer, they use them because it makes diving easier and allows for longer bottom time to enjoy the sport that much more.

I bet you'd have the same puzzled look if you went to work one day and saw one of your colleagues banging away on a typewriter.

 

[PBcatfish]

Computers are very useful when you are doing multi-level dives. They are convenient when you are using gas mixes that are not on the standard charts. When I am doing dives to moderate depths, where I can't carry enough air to come close to a max bottom time, I don't find them particularly desirable. Also, when I am sitting at a safety stop or deco stop, I find it much easier to watch an analog depth guage rather than numbers on a computer, but that's just my personal preference. Unfortunately, that preference continues to strengthen as my eyesight continues to deteriorate with age and those little numbers get harder to read. Pretty soon, I'm going to need to get a ProPlus to get big enough numbers to compensate for my poor eyesight. My pressure & depth gauges are both color coded, which makes it easy for me to know when the needle is where it needs to be. I also have some concerns about relying on battery powered electronics at depth. When a battery goes dead (preventable) or a computer floods (not always preventable) then you are suddenly without necessary information. Gauges have a very low sudden-failure rate. I still carry gauges & a watch as a backup when I dive with a computer. Computers most certainly have their time & place, but I don't find them to be the best possible choice on all dives.

As for the power inflate gizmos, I have them on a few of my BCs & I do use them, but I also use manual inflation on those rigs when dialing in my buoyancy to exactly where I want it. If I inhale strongly, until I reach exactly the buoyancy that I want, then blow air into my BC until I reach a comfortable & relaxed lung capacity, I hit my perfect air fill in my BC on the first try and very quickly. Also, when I am doing easy dives in warm water, where I do not need to carry much weight, I often opt for a free-diver's horse collar rather than a full jacket style BC. I can swim with less resistance using that thin horse collar, compared to a full jacket or even a wing. I haven't seen a horse collar with a power inflation connection in close to 30 years. I'm not sure that anybody still makes them, so I use what is available.

Thank you both for the feedback.

 

[Leighen]

Computers are very useful when you are doing multi-level dives.

Strictly speaking, virtually every dive is a multilevel dive.

When a battery goes dead (preventable) or a computer floods (not always preventable) then you are suddenly without necessary information.

Computers don't suddenly lose their power due to battery exhaustion- they give a warning first, when there's enough power remaining for at least one more dive. Computers don't suddenly flood during a dive- if they're going to flood it's typically going to happen in the beginning of the dive, when the maximum pressure is reached at depth (sure there could be the extremely rare exception).

Gauges have a very low sudden-failure rate. I still carry gauges & a watch as a backup when I dive with a computer.

Many of us do. That doesn't strengthen your argument against computers.

Computers most certainly have their time & place, but I don't find them to be the best possible choice on all dives.

You may not prefer them but they are in fact a better choice than the old fashioned methods you describe, and there's really nothing in what you posed that disputes that. Don't get me wrong, you're certainly entitled to dive however you please, it's just that your arguments against computers are flawed on multi-levels (pun intended of course).

As for the power inflate gizmos, I have them on a few of my BCs & I do use them, but I also use manual inflation on those rigs when dialing in my buoyancy to exactly where I want it.

You are suggesting that manual inflate is somehow a better choice than power inflating a BCD- because it's more... accurate?? Is that really what you're saying? Are you aware that you can vary the amount of air a power inflator injects into a BCD by holding the button for a shorter or longer period of time?

 

[PBcatfish]

I’ll take these one at a time. Perhaps I did not explain myself as well as I could have.

Not all of my dives are multi-level dives. As an example, I sometimes work on moorings. In that case, I often go to the bottom, do what I have to do, then surface. That’s a square dive. Also, if I am doing a single dive with a single tank, in 30 feet of water, there is no way that I am going to hit a decompression limit. In that case, it doesn’t matter if I am doing a multilevel dive or a square dive. It can be calculated as square on the bottom & there is no penalty. It doesn't matter if the tables tell me I have 4 more hours of bottom time remaining or if a computer tells me that I have 5.5 hours remaining. I'm not going to use that time anyway. The difference is superfluous.

I understand that computers give a low battery warning before the battery goes dead. That is why I labeled a dead battery issue as being preventable. There are situations where you might not be able to get a replacement battery when the indicator comes on, such as when you are cruising on a sailboat in remote uninhabited atolls, but for most people things like that are not an issue.

As for sudden flooding, that is most common immediately after a battery change, but I have also seen a grain of sand get jammed in a button and cause a flood when the button was pushed during a dive I have also seen salt buildup abrade the seals around a button & cause a leak.. In a situation such as having just had a new battery put in & finding that your computer floods on your first dive of the day, I like to have plan B available. One guy I dive with carries a second computer. I carry a depth gauge & a watch. That’s just personal preference. I am not arguing that my preference is better. I’m just stating it as being my preference. Plan B means that you are still diving. No plan B means that you are done for the day.

I am not trying to say that diving “the old fashioned way” is better than using a computer as a general rule of thumb. I have computers. When the diving I am doing warrants their use. I use them. I was mostly saying that in many situations I encounter, a computer is not necessary. In fact, I often do short dives in shallow waters with just a pressure gauge & no other instruments at all. The only real advantage here, is that I am not lugging around unneeded gear & I am not subjecting my unneeded gear to the extra wear & tear of that added dive. Over the course of a few hundred dives, that wear & tear does add up. I have worn out a fair amount of gear over the years. I also really do prefer the ease of diving with minimum gear, when appropriate. My other issue, & this does not apply to everyone, is that I can read my color coded gauges better than I can read the numbers on my computers if I don’t have reading lenses in my mask. Poor eyesight can make a computer worthless if you can’t read the numbers. You may not have that issue. Unfortunately, I do.

As for BC use, yes, I do realize that you can just quickly tap the button to get a smaller burst of air. I got my first power inflator back in the early 1980’s. I’m pretty familiar with how to use them. What I was explaining, was my personally preferred way of fine tuning precision buoyancy balance quickly. I can control the volume of air that I inhale & exhale more quickly & accurately than any power inflator. When I hit my perfect balance, I then exhale into my BC, maintaining the exact same buoyancy. It’s actually a pretty simple skill to master, although it’s probably not taught anymore these days. If you are doing mid column work, precision buoyancy control can be pretty helpful. Getting it right quickly can be convenient.

As a rule, I try to streamline my gear as much as possible when diving. When I am not going to need a particular piece of equipment, I don’t bring it. That is my most basic point. I wasn’t trying to trash talk modern computers as being junk, but I do believe that they are unnecessary on some dives. That is why I don't always use them.

I don’t see how my perspectives (or “arguments”) are flawed. If it appears that I have misunderstood you, please try again to help me comprehend what I have missed.



Thank you

 

[loosenit2]

Welcome to SB and back to diving. I think you’ll find that being on SB is just like diving, there are rules but they are hidden in .02 font just like the back of the PADI dive tables.

You are sure to hear all about the biases that exist but be aware there is a strong technical bias on SB that shades everything. Not a problem as long as you are aware of so when the buy a shearwater computer , backplate and wing and use a primary donate long hose or you’ll die advice starts rolling in you are not surprised.

But seriously buy a shearwater or you’ll die, no seriously I’m not kidding.

 

[iamrushman]

howdy and welcome from your south florida neighbor......shhh,, don't mention that you don't use a octopus regulator on shallow dives...(smile and grin).

 

[Leighen]

Not all of my dives are multi-level dives. Also, if I am doing a single dive with a single tank, in 30 feet of water,

Agreed, the NDL information supplied by a computer is useless on a non-multilevel dive at a shallow depth of 30'.

That is why I labeled a dead battery issue as being preventable. There are situations where you might not be able to get a replacement battery

Bring spare batteries. They're cheap and usually about the size of a quarter.

In a situation such as having just had a new battery put in & finding that your computer floods on your first dive of the day, I like to have plan B available. One guy I dive with carries a second computer. I carry a depth gauge & a watch.

I carry a backup identical computer AND a mini spg gauge because I don't want to risk having to miss or abort a dive.

that I am not lugging around unneeded gear & I am not subjecting my unneeded gear to the extra wear & tear of that added dive. Over the course of a few hundred dives, that wear & tear does add up.

Agree. Don't carry gear that isn't necessary for the dive.

Poor eyesight can make a computer worthless if you can’t read the numbers. You may not have that issue.

I have that issue. My computer has big numbers and because it's on my wrist I can hold it as close as I want to.

I can control the volume of air that I inhale & exhale more quickly & accurately than any power inflator. When I hit my perfect balance, I then exhale into my BC, maintaining the exact same buoyancy. It’s actually a pretty simple skill to master, although it’s probably not taught anymore these days.

Probably not taught because it requires removing the regulator from the mouth and puffing into a regulator inflator mouthpiece- which is completely unnecessary and a lot more work when the same exact or even more accurate results can be obtained by a simple press or flick of a button.

You continue to imply that your manual inflate method is superior to using an autoinflate mechanism because there's more control of the amount of gas injected into the BCD. Heck I could take your logic and say "I could more accurately parallel park my automobile by getting out, standing next to it and pushing it slightly rather than stepping on the gas pedal" or "I could get a much more precise cut if I used scissors on my lawn rather than using a gas powered mower" but it's simply not practical when there are better alternatives.

 

[Leighen]

I have also seen a grain of sand get jammed in a button and cause a flood when the button was pushed during a dive

Why?