PADI manual pages

[yle]

have to hand in the originals not photo copies , that way the book cant be used /resold again padis way of making you buy new each time

This is not required by PADI. As Jack as stated above, the recent (but now changed?) requirement was that students must have their own copy of the book, they must complete the KRs, and instructors should keep a copy of the completed KRs in the student's file. Many instructors interpreted this as "rip the KRs out of the book and hand them in." I always thought that was ridiculous... why insist the student had to buy a book if you won't let them keep all the information in the book? The KRs are their work that they will hopefully refer to later.

I made a habit of making copies of my students' completed KRs when they worked on the final exam. I kept the photocopies, they kept the originals intact in their books. Standards met, no ripped or missing pages, everyone was good.

But to the OP, that's going to be a "no". Live and learn: when you buy a used book, sometimes you'll get what you pay for... i.e. essential parts might be missing.

 

[yle]

For all the courses I took (ending 2009) I copied the knowledge reviews and either tore out the originals and handed them in or handed in the copies. I wanted a record of the questions for future reference & study. I suppose technically this violated copywrite,

You did not violate copyright. Making a copy of your completed work is never a problem. This is essentially what PADI expects instructors to do, i.e. let the students keep the original, completed KRs while instructors retain a copy for their records.

 

[abnfrog]

students can keep a copy but the instructor has to keep the originals just asked headquarters .....

 

[tursiops]

students can keep a copy but the instructor has to keep the originals just asked headquarters .....

I don't understand this statement, and would like to know more about what the question actually was, what the answer actually was, and who provided the answer. It has been some time (13 years) since Knowledge Reviews needed to be handed in; all the instructor needs to do is ascertain and note that the KR was completed. No copies or originals needed. See Traning Bulletin 3rdQ 2006. No change to this seems to have been published.
Knowledge Review Administrative Option:
Retain or Document Diver Mastery

PADI Scuba Diver, Open Water Diver, Adventures in Diving, Rescue Diver and Divemaster course standards require you to review completed course knowledge reviews with student divers to assure mastery of the information. For most courses, PADI standards also require you to collect and physically retain the knowledge reviews.
Effective immediately, you have a choice — to either retain knowledge reviews as before, or, document in the student training record that you reviewed the completed knowledge reviews and had the diver sign the knowledge reviews verifying understanding. This change aligns knowledge review documentation options with the PADI Scuba Diver and Open Water Diver course standards (as announced in the Fourth Quarter 2005 Training Bulletin).
Adventures in Diving, Rescue Diver and Divemaster course instructor guides will be revised to allow you to document diver mastery and review of knowledge reviews (rather than physically retaining them) as an option.

 

[JackD342]

I don't understand this statement, and would like to know more about what the question actually was, what the answer actually was, and who provided the answer. It has been some time (13 years) since Knowledge Reviews needed to be handed in; all the instructor needs to do is ascertain and note that the KR was completed. No copies or originals needed. See Traning Bulletin 3rdQ 2006. No change to this seems to have been published.
Knowledge Review Administrative Option:
Retain or Document Diver Mastery

PADI Scuba Diver, Open Water Diver, Adventures in Diving, Rescue Diver and Divemaster course standards require you to review completed course knowledge reviews with student divers to assure mastery of the information. For most courses, PADI standards also require you to collect and physically retain the knowledge reviews.
Effective immediately, you have a choice — to either retain knowledge reviews as before, or, document in the student training record that you reviewed the completed knowledge reviews and had the diver sign the knowledge reviews verifying understanding. This change aligns knowledge review documentation options with the PADI Scuba Diver and Open Water Diver course standards (as announced in the Fourth Quarter 2005 Training Bulletin).
Adventures in Diving, Rescue Diver and Divemaster course instructor guides will be revised to allow you to document diver mastery and review of knowledge reviews (rather than physically retaining them) as an option.

Dang! I just spent almost an hour looking for this. I found it and return here to see you pulled it up shortly after I started my search. So yeah, I would also like to know what @abnfrog means by "just asked headquarters"...

 

[abnfrog]

sorry what I was told was that IF you don't retain the kr you are not AS defensible so not really sure if they (padi would do if it went to court ) as peter meyer told me (dive insurance guru) if you don't have the paperwork it didn't happen .......so I do keep them

 

[oly5050user]

sorry what I was told was that IF you don't retain the kr you are not AS defensible so not really sure if they (padi would do if it went to court ) as peter meyer told me (dive insurance guru) if you don't have the paperwork it didn't happen .......so I do keep them

Just switch to online eLearning, all student work and documentation , liability releases, medical all digitally saved . Also saves a lot of time in classroom, this way it can take less time to complete course and instructor makes more per hour worked.can devote more time for in water skills rather than classroom where student can actually learn to be comfortable to be in the water.

 

[loosenit2]

Just switch to online eLearning, all student work and documentation , liability releases, medical all digitally saved . Also saves a lot of time in classroom, this way it can take less time to complete course and instructor makes more per hour worked.can devote more time for in water skills rather than classroom where student can actually learn to be comfortable to be in the water.

From a students perspective e-learning, at least with PADI is more expensive than traditional delivery with books and videos or classroom instruction and the learning outcomes are debatable in terms of learning and retention. Two examples from LDSs in my area:

LDS1: OW elearning 190 + pool and OW dives 250 = 440. Cost for traditional class 375.

LDS 2: OW elearning 190 + pool and OW dives 300 = 490.Costfor. Traditional class 400.

I get the benefits of elearning, standardizes delivery, reduces admin and class time for instructors, makes delivery of academics more flexible. However the current PADI pricing structure does not incentivize elearning, just the opposite it makes it less attractive financially for the student. I he model appears to try to shift earnings from LDSs and instructors to PADI corporate.

 

[JackD342]

From a students perspective e-learning, at least with PADI is more expensive than traditional delivery with books and videos or classroom instruction and the learning outcomes are debatable in terms of learning and retention. Two examples from LDSs in my area:

LDS1: OW elearning 190 + pool and OW dives 250 = 440. Cost for traditional class 375.

LDS 2: OW elearning 190 + pool and OW dives 300 = 490.Costfor. Traditional class 400.

I get the benefits of elearning, standardizes delivery, reduces admin and class time for instructors, makes delivery of academics more flexible. However the current PADI pricing structure does not incentivize elearning, just the opposite it makes it less attractive financially for the student. I he model appears to try to shift earnings from LDSs and instructors to PADI corporate.

That is not a PADI pricing structure, it is the shop's pricing structure. We all complain about margins but then engage in a race to the bottom and put classes out there at break even prices. Since there is a lower "hard" cost in the traditional classroom, there is more room to lower a price by undervaluing the cost of the instruction itself. (If a big class, there can also be more economy of scale - that really doesn't come into play with eLearning.)

I have always been careful to price classes so that classroom versus eLearning comparisons are revenue neutral.

And yes, eLearning is convenient and saves instruction time, but while it is simple enough to price classes so the business makes the same profit either way, the less obvious result is that payroll that would have gone to a classroom instructor is now embedded in the eLearning cost of goods. So the shop may be okay, but there is less $$ earnings available to staff.

 

[yle]

I get the benefits of elearning, standardizes delivery, reduces admin and class time for instructors, makes delivery of academics more flexible. However the current PADI pricing structure does not incentivize elearning, just the opposite it makes it less attractive financially for the student. I he model appears to try to shift earnings from LDSs and instructors to PADI corporate.

From the beginning, PADI has never promoted eLearning as a way for students to save money. In fact, just the opposite: they have promoted it as a convenience for students for which students should be willing to pay more. Unfortunately, so much "online learning" in other areas (e.g. youtube videos and the like) is associated with low-cost or free. So most students are confused by the idea that PADI's eLearning is more expensive.

PADI recognized this from the start, i.e. they thought eLearning was a premium option but students assumed it would be cheaper. Which is why PADI has enlisted the help of instructors and shops to promote it... and they leave it to us to try to convince the students it's in their interest to pay more for it (i.e. we get to be the salespeople for eLearning.)

As for shifting earnings to PADI... yes and no. To be fair, there is some cost to PADI to produce and maintain the eLearning system. And when students pay PADI for eLearning, PADI send some of that revenue to the shop or instructor running the class (the student has to designate who their instructor and/or shop is within the eLearning.)

With that said, I've never used eLearning. All of my students have always got the old fashioned book and classroom version. But my day job has provided me a unique skill set by which I know my classroom sessions provide a better education than eLearning could.