Best way to structure technical training

[boulderjohn]

@boulderjohn We would love to hear from you.

Well, I do scan through ScubaBoard pretty regularly to see if there is any interesting news going on, but I have not participated actively in about a half a year. At that time management made it perfectly clear to me that I was not welcome here. I was not actually banned, but I was certainly told that I was not someone they wanted around any more. I was told that my "recent" activity had been very disruptive. Since then, the only post I made was in response to similar request for my participation in another thread. I don't want to ruin the atmosphere of this fine forum, so I will obey their wishes and stay away. Since there are few places to go to get scuba-related news, I will be back as a reader, but I won't be posting.

 

[KentB]

Well, I do scan through ScubaBoard pretty regularly to see if there is any interesting news going on, but I have not participated actively in about a half a year. At that time management made it perfectly clear to me that I was not welcome here. I was not actually banned, but I was certainly told that I was not someone they wanted around any more. I was told that my "recent" activity had been very disruptive. Since then, the only post I made was in response to similar request for my participation in another thread. I don't want to ruin the atmosphere of this fine forum, so I will obey their wishes and stay away. Since there are few places to go to get scuba-related news, I will be back as a reader, but I won't be posting.

that really sucks.... i always valued your posts

 

[NothingClever]

I tell every AN/DP student that it's not just about going deep.

I agree with you, Jim. For me, it’s about simply redefining the boundaries and principles imposed during my recreational courses. I don’t have an arbitrary depth goal but rather skills and experience goals.

 

[Diving Dubai]

that it's not just about going deep

I totally agree

For me (and the group I dive with regularly), in our home location, the possibility of deco is firmly part of our dive and gas plan. For 80% of the dives that contingency isn't used .

But their are those times, perhaps where you have dropped once more to that coral pinnacle at 40m, and this time there is a Molo Mola hanging out, or you're mooching around on a scooter and "bump into" that whale shark, or family of gigantic leopard rays, maybe a large shoal of devil rays allow you the privilege of joining them for a while.

The ocean is a huge place and the the chances (even diving regularly) of being at the right place at exactly the right time are so infrequent, that these are the times you want to saviour and be able to do so safely with the knowledge you have the experience and the gas to do so without pushing limits.

For "me" Technical training isn't about the use of exotic gases to dive long and deep (although for others that is their goal). I'll hopefully be able to sit at home and recall those memories long after my gear has been sold and I've quit diving because I had the resources at my disposal to capture that moment in time in my minds eye. Its a tool to use rather than a card to boast about with the hope it enters me into some "club"

 

[KenGordon]

Question for the instructors but all are welcome to share your views.

It seems that different agencies like to break technical training into different chunks and with some of these, I am totally failing to understand the wisdom behind the breakdown.

GUE and other DIR offshoots have Fundies or Essentials which is meant to build basic proficiency. I can appreciate that. After that their progression is Tech 1, Tech 2 etc and since you are not learning new gases, it is more skill oriented.

TDI's original approach made sense if you wanted to be selective about the depths at which you would introduce Helium. ANDP would introduce divers to bottle handing and basics of decompression while Trimix would have been their first introduction to Helium.

Is there any reason or advantage for SSI to break their technical training into XR Nitrox with 130 feet depth limit and 50% Nitrox for deco? To the instructors who teach tech, what exactly are we trying to achieve by this mini-tech course? It appears that we are not confident in the students ability to hold a stop at 20 feet so we are graduating semi-tech divers with an error room for 70 feet?

What exactly is the best breakdown for creating solid and competent technical divers and why?

Ideally you let people make mistakes at a depth which is not too terrible. That means keeping them shallow while not so competent or experienced. Another issue is how much deeper or longer deco a course might be than their previous experience.

This is true regardless of whether a course is ‘technical’ or not.

For a AOW type diver, who has no deco training at all, a course that introduces deco, a stage, a proper requirement for holding stops, redundancy, and a proper requirement for planning is a lot. Do you want them to go out and do 45m dives with 20 minutes of accelerated deco immediately? Or would longer 30m dives with 10 minutes of backgas deco be a safer place to start?

What you are calling ‘semi-tech’ is just a place on the way between simple no stop diving and much more complicated diving with multiple gases and more sorts of mistakes to make.

Personally I think people should only be doing accelerated deco once they get bored of backgas deco, but that is because backgas deco is an available option for almost everyone I dive with. That is an available option with, for example, TDI DP, however if you ask the people who teach that they seem to say that nobody wants just deco skills, they want the full deal.

 

[The Chairman]

At that time management made it perfectly clear to me that I was not welcome here.

John, you're always welcome here.

so I will obey their wishes and stay away.

No one has ever asked you to "stay away". My "wish" is for you to contribute as you see fit and to have fun. I don't know of a single moderator who feels differently.

 

[NothingClever]

But their are those times, perhaps where you have dropped once more to that coral pinnacle....

....and be able to do so safely with the knowledge you have the experience and the gas to do so without pushing limits.

.....be able to sit at home and recall those memories long after my gear has been sold and I've quit diving....

Very nice post, DD. Thanks for expressing it so well.

 

[decompression]

Well, I do scan through ScubaBoard pretty regularly to see if there is any interesting news going on, but I have not participated actively in about a half a year. At that time management made it perfectly clear to me that I was not welcome here. I was not actually banned, but I was certainly told that I was not someone they wanted around any more. I was told that my "recent" activity had been very disruptive. Since then, the only post I made was in response to similar request for my participation in another thread. I don't want to ruin the atmosphere of this fine forum, so I will obey their wishes and stay away. Since there are few places to go to get scuba-related news, I will be back as a reader, but I won't be posting.

Miss your posts John....

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

From what I have seen, the industry is in need of a thorough skill development course like UTD Essentials of GUE Fundies. PSAI has recognized that and they have ABC Trim, (Advanced Buoyancy Control and Trim.) Every one else seems to be getting certified first and then developing skills later during their real world diving. This means that some of the more competent divers I have seen from mainstream agencies are the ones who have been doing it for a while now. At the entry level, there is a huge difference in basic diving skills as they are developed during DIR training vs everyone else.
Once those skills and in-water proficiency is in place, decompression on 100% is not as risky as it would be if you jumped into tech with the same skill level of a recreational diver, hoping to become a technical diver sometime along the way.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

From what I have seen, the industry is in need of a thorough skill development course like UTD Essentials of GUE Fundies. PSAI has recognized that and they have ABC Trim, (Advanced Buoyancy Control and Trim.) Every one else seems to be getting certified first and then developing skills later during their real world diving. This means that some of the more competent divers I have seen from mainstream agencies are the ones who have been doing it for a while now. At the entry level, there is a huge difference in basic diving skills as they are developed during DIR training vs everyone else.
Once those skills and in-water proficiency is in place, decompression on 100% is not as risky as it would be if you jumped into tech with the same skill level of a recreational diver, hoping to become a technical diver sometime along the way.

I believe the industry already has the courses. You just mentioned three. RAID has Performance Diver, SNSI has Hovering Dive and PADI has Peak Performance Buoyancy. That makes six courses we just listed in the industry,

I think the key is how these courses are taught. I don't like PPB as I teach that in OW and AOW both but I have done taught the course. A good instructor will not only focus on buoyancy but on trim and propulsion techniques as well. I teach buoyancy, trim, frog kick, helicopter turns and back kick in my PPB. I also have the student hold stops. We ascend in 3m increments and hold each stop for a minute.

Again, you say the industry needs a skill development course and I say these courses already exist as we both have listed them.