new diver - first dive problems

[chillyinCanada]

One of the first things I asked the instructor is if you should take a pony bottle with you. She said it's a "cop-out". It does seem un-necessary unless you're going to 120' or more.

Did she realize that you intended to dive solo and deeper than 60'?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I understand you - I just don’t agree with you. To me, testosterone levels don’t excuse one from taking personal responsibility.

Fair enough.

One thing the PADI training hammered home was buddy diving - so not sure how a newly certified OW diver could ever get Solo was OK?

That's if the instructor teaches that. I can't speak for the OP's instructor, but as I've mentioned earlier, mine was so bad, he's dangerous.

 

[Degenerate]

I assume that because he doesn't seem to know anything of the dangers or even simple things like why to not touch corals. Those things are all emphasized under good instruction. Matt thought 130' was his limit vs knowing that he'd only been trained to 60' and required more training/experience for deeper than that. He had no buddy on his first dive and didn't seem to understand why that might not have been a good idea, particularly to 100' with no pony and no experience. He didn't know about task loading. He doesn't seem to have known or absorbed the necessity for surface intervals and safety stops nor danger of freediving after a dive.

My OW was decades ago and I still remember the emphasis my instructor put on all of those things and more.

My concern is that our Matt wasn't really taught above the level of a resort course, if that much.

He thought his instructor was great. My interpretation is that she has a good personality. That's not the same thing as being a great instructor nor even a competent one. Even so, Matt must have done the materials and quizzes up front. He doesn't appear to have absorbed that info either and his instructor doesn't appear to have noticed that.

Or he did get adequate training and just didn't care about sticking within his limits.
He's posted nothing so far that leads us to believe that he actually absorbed any kind of training he received, so I doubt what level or training he received would have made any difference at all.

 

[MAKO Spearguns]

Lets try this again.

@Matt Spear I believe you and your fellow spearos are a bit out of date.

I respectfully suggest to the mods of this thread that the spearfishing technique discussion be split into another thread, possibly in the Underwater Hunting forum, where other spearos that he might better relate to would be more likely to participate. I do think it is a topic worth exploring, especially if this type of spearfishing behavior is as wide spread as the poster seems to believe.

@CuzzA @MAKO Spearguns others?

Since I was specifically mentioned, I guess I can throw in my two cents. Spearfishing is the most environmentally responsible means to take fish for human consumption. There is generally no bait, no lost nets, lost lines or hooks and very low by-catch or unintended or under-sized take. It is efficient and has minimal waste and unintended impact. Paddling off the beach with a kayak and freediving for your dinner, can and should be one of the most responsible means to harvest fish.

The benefits of spearfishing (over other methods of take) are however, contingent upon the diver utilizing responsible methods. This would encompass a wide range of practices which would include not targeting undersized fish or species which are out of season or fish species which fall under protected status.

Responsible practices also include being aware of the environment, not impacting coral etc. Divers often use sound to attract fish. This may include grunting, tapping and some diver even use mechanical clickers. Tapping or clicking on the reef structure is a valid method, but it should never be done on live coral. In almost all instances, there are portions of the reef which are "dead" or covered with algae and any tapping can be done on these areas.

Spearfisherman should be just as concerned about the health of our reefs as every other diver, perhaps even more so, since we are consumptive users.

Thanks
Dano

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Since I was specifically mentioned, I guess I can throw in my two cents. Spearfishing is the most environmentally responsible means to take fish for human consumption. There is generally no bait, no lost nets, lost lines or hooks and very low by-catch or unintended or under-sized take. It is efficient and has minimal waste and unintended impact. Paddling off the beach with a kayak and freediving for your dinner, can and should be one of the most responsible means to harvest fish.

The benefits of spearfishing (over other methods of take) are however, contingent upon the diver utilizing responsible methods. This would encompass a wide range of practices which would include not targeting undersized fish or species which are out of season or fish species which fall under protected status.

Responsible practices also include being aware of the environment, not impacting coral etc. Divers often use sound to attract fish. This may include grunting, tapping and some diver even use mechanical clickers. Tapping or clicking on the reef structure is a valid method, but it should never be done on live coral. In almost all instances, there are portions of the reef which are "dead" or covered with algae and any tapping can be done on these areas.

Spearfisherman should be just as concerned about the health of our reefs as every other diver, perhaps even more so, since we are consumptive users.

Thanks
Dano

Well said. Thank you. And I don’t ever spearfish

 

[Damselfish]

Thanks for the tip - went out today again and really got the hang of it. However, I don't see why to not touch the coral? When spearing, you go down and grab on to something or go in a hole. A great spero once told me the best technique is to dive down, put your d**k in a hole and don't move!
From the coral, my gloves usually go pretty fast from crawling along the bottom. A lot of divers also use there knife to scrape coral off to create clouds that attract the fish. I guess I'm wondering why this would all change just because I put a tank on my back?

It doesn't change, you shouldn't be damaging the coral either way. Just because some people do it, doesn't make it right. Just like people walk on the reef some places because they don't know any better, doesn't make it right.

If you don't believe that you shouldn't touch/damage the coral, look at it this way. Aside from the bubbles, scuba gives you a certain advantage over freediving. So perhaps you should have more restraints to even the score. There are certainly places/targets that you can only hunt while freediving, because it is too easy on scuba. Take on the challenge of getting skilled enough to hunt (either way) without destroying stuff, be proud of those skills, and maybe others will follow your example.

But you shouldn't damage the coral. Accidents happen, but doing it deliberately is so lame. Reefs are not what they were 30 years ago when I started diving. There are lots of causes, and stuff like this certainly isn't helping.

 

[CuzzA]

There are certainly places/targets that you can only hunt while freediving, because it is too easy on scuba.

While I agree with your sentiment, I wish that quoted statement was true, but it's not. I don't want to discount the apnea divers at all and it's not an us vs. them deal in my eyes. Nevertheless, freediving has a huge advantage of being silent. In the context of scuba, ask a rebreather diver how different their interaction is with the environment compared to an open circuit diver. And the places where they banned scuba spearfishing have had the unintended consequence that all off the coastal and shallow reefs get overfished. Also, keep in mind the USA has the healthiest fishery in the world and every year the NOAA announces another stock has been rebuilt despite being one of the only countries in the world that allows scuba spearfishing. Some of us just enjoy scuba diving while also bringing home dinner. Number of U.S. fish stocks at sustainable levels remains near record high | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

 

[chillyinCanada]

While I agree with your sentiment, I wish that quoted statement was true, but it's not. I don't want to discount the apnea divers at all and it's not an us vs. them deal in my eyes. Nevertheless, freediving has a huge advantage of being silent. In the context of scuba, ask a rebreather diver how different their interaction is with the environment compared to an open circuit diver. And the places where they banned scuba spearfishing have had the unintended consequence that all off the coastal and shallow reefs get overfished. Also, keep in mind the USA has the healthiest fishery in the world and every year the NOAA announces another stock has been rebuilt despite being one of the only countries in the world that allows scuba spearfishing. Some of us just enjoy scuba diving while also bringing home dinner. Number of U.S. fish stocks at sustainable levels remains near record high | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

Let's not get off track here.

We're not coaching Matt about spearfishing.

We're trying to impart dive physiology and reef care.

 

[Matt Spear]

Thanks for sharing the videos! I noticed the guy in the second video is definitely holding his breath. One thing they taught in the class is if you hold your breath while scuba diving you WILL die for sure. But that was another thing I thought they taught that wasn't totally true. I bet you could stay underwater for over two hours if you hold your breath and take air as needed while staying at a constant depth?
It also looks like these guys are super deep (based on the colors). Another thing they taught was colors are less vibrant at deeper levels which I never really thought of before, but looking at my red anchor in the previous pic you can see it doesn't look so red. I don't think this technique would work at a shallow inner reef depth of 30' or so.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Not necessarily deeper, not all locales are the same for light and viz etc. Sure they may well be, but could just as easily not be deep.