Full Face Specialty - worth it?

[АлександрД]

@Charles Graves FFM always reasonable in the COLD water and in the dirt or non-pH-neutral waters.
examples: can find here
for warm waters - it is possible but non-reasonable. Only when you need to keep talking eachother or with surface. But in most cases in the warm water it will be just a toy.

 

[Addicted2H2O]

Personally, I think it’s crazy and foolish to do FFM. I’ve always been a half-face mask guy. I see movies or videos where people are in FFM and I think it’s just clownish, almost like the people making the movies don’t know how to dive.

is FFM a thing? Yeah but it shouldn’t be. And 95% of divers never do it or wanna do it.

The problem is if a FFM leaks, you can’t really clear it and if you have to take it off, you have no real way to breathe except by grabbing your octopus (which hopefully is working) and then you’re breathing with no mask.

with a half face mask, you can just clear it very easily or adjust it if it leaks.

you don’t get quiiiite as much side to side or up-and-down visibility with a half face mask, but IMO I still get a damn good visibility.

Wow......as a primarily ffm diver....I almost feel sort of attacked by your comments. Somehow because I choose to dive a ffm, I'm "foolish" and I'm less of a diver? let me see if I can break this down a bit.

1. Movies are movies. Why not draw attention to higher tech gear? Makes for better film.
2. Not saying your figures are wrong, but most of the time when I'm diving with non-ffm divers, I'm fielding questions about my ffm and comments about how they'd love to try them out and how they seem like a good idea, albeit a bit on the expensive side.
3. I've never once had my ffm leak. And if it does...it's leaking air because it's pressurized. If I break the seal on my forehead my ffm spews air and NO water gets in. If I forget to close the surface air valve and make my descent (yes it's happened) it still doesn't leak. Yes water gets in when I inhale and it breathes a bit wet until I exhale and the water exits via the purge valve. Or I simply depress the purge on the reg just like you would a traditional 2nd stage. In the instance I suffer a ffm failure (and I have but it wasn't the mask) I disconnect and doff the mask, breathe off my octo and don the back-up mask I have in a BC pocket. Then from there I connect the back-up 2nd stage I carry with me and switch to it so I still have a secondary reg to donate if a buddy runs into an OOA situation. And if I run into a situation where my octo isn't working...well shame on me for not doing a good gear check before making my entry into the water. As to breathing without a mask...EVERY OW class I've been in teaches students how to breathe wet face. Is it ideal? No of course not. But in the event of a failure...it's doable. But any good ffm diver is going to dive with redundancy. And if they're not....they shouldn't be diving a ffm. Do you dive with a back-up mask on you? What happens if your primary mask gets knocked/kicked off and you don't have a back-up?

Here are the reasons I dive a ffm

a. No fogging
b. No leaking
c. no jaw fatigue
d. no dry mouth
e. COMS - and this works with teaching classes if the instructor has an additional receiver because he can audibly tell the student what to do
f. comfort in cold water

So to say diving a ffm is "crazy and foolish ad clownish" is a completely close-minded statement and tells me you've obviously never experienced diving one. Maybe you should try it and see for yourself. And maybe reserve your comments about condemning those divers that do choose to dive ffm.

 

[Akimbo]

Another issue to be aware of with FFMs is the tendency to breathe too shallow to adequately eliminate/ventilate CO2, especially with macro photographers who spend lots of time very still. The increased dead air space in the oral-nasal mask requires more volume to ventilate. Also, FFMs allow nose breathing which promotes shallow breaths. Increased gas density as depths increase increases the WOB (Work of Breathing). All these factors can result in higher CO2 levels unless divers adjust their respirations.

Commercial divers are taught to overtly deep breathe to counteract these constraints, but they don't suffer the gas limitations of Scuba divers. RMVs don't necessarily have to significantly increase but deeper and slower cycles are required, especially when deeper.

 

[kelemvor]

@novarlynx if you do go FFM, you'll find that most shops give training for free with the purchase just like drysuits and sidemount systems. At least that was the case when I bought one (same with my drysuit and sidemount bc). If your LDS is asking you to pay for training on an FFM you're planning to buy from them, I'd suggest shopping around until you find a more reasonable shop.

Also, I'd expect to be paying a few hundred bucks under MSRP unless you're buying online. My experience was that all shops who sell FFMs charged less than the online prices I was able to find.

Personally, I enjoyed using the FFM but I never could get to a similar SAC rate when using it. I took a class, used the FFM for over a year exclusively. Eventually I got sick of being the first guy back on the boat and went back to standard regulator. I don't think that FFM's are bad, but I just decided the benefits weren't worth the shorter dive times I experienced.

 

[martincohn]

FFM, today's let's pick on the scuba guy doin something different. Kinda like SM not to long ago.

If you can rock a FFM and know what you are doing to stay safe around others, then by all means rock a FFM.

Me personally wouldn't wear one of the damn things. But I support your right to do so.

Just like my gay married friends should be able to protect their pot fields with machine guns.

 

[nippurmagnum]

Here are the reasons I dive a ffm

a. No fogging
b. No leaking
c. no jaw fatigue
d. no dry mouth
e. COMS - and this works with teaching classes if the instructor has an additional receiver because he can audibly tell the student what to do
f. comfort in cold water

So to say diving a ffm is "crazy and foolish ad clownish" is a completely close-minded statement and tells me you've obviously never experienced diving one. Maybe you should try it and see for yourself. And maybe reserve your comments about condemning those divers that do choose to dive ffm.

I dive a Guardian FFM as a volunteer diver at an aquarium, where I do a comms talk to the guests from the shark exhibit. I got trained on the proper use of the FFM at the aquarium, and I've done dozens of COMMs dive with it. In my experience, all of the reasons cited above in favor of the FFM are accurate (though I can't speak to comfort in cold water). You just can't do a COMMs dive with a regular mask.

However, there are many reasons I dislike the Guardian FFM:

a. Somewhat counterintuitively, the full face mask has a narrower field of view than a regular dive mask. It really feels like tunnel vision.
b. It is a pain in the butt to equalize with an FFM. You have to either use a nose plug attachment, which is very uncomfortable, or else rely entirely on swallowing and wiggling your jaw.
c. The FFM has five straps that need to be adjusted, and it can take several minutes to get the fit just right.
d. The Guardian FFM has a cheap acrylic face plate, which gets easily scratched, and is particularly awful to look through at the surface.
e. You can't use prescription lenses. That's a big negative for me, and reason alone not to use a FFM.
f. The FFM has valves that have to be turned the right way to prevent water from entering the mask. Not rocket science, but something that's easy to forget, and an additional hassle.

Having dived both regular masks and FFM, I would definitely not use FFM for anything other than a COMMS dive.

 

[Addicted2H2O]

I actually want to volunteer at an aquarium myself, but the one I'd be working at is about 6 hours away. They, too, use the Guardian and also do a guest presentation during feedings, etc. They're on an umbilical, though. So haven't ruled it out just yet. Just has to be a once a month or so thing because it's so far away. But let me expand on your points a bit:

a. with the Oceanreef I don't really get a tunnelvision feel anymore than I do a conventional mask
b. I utilize the nasal nodes, which they tell you to set just under your nose and then push the top of the mask up to where they close off your nostrils. I purposely set mine to where my nostrils are closed off at all times so I never have to touch my mask
c. The Oceanreef ffms have 6 straps, but once you get accustomed to it and the order in which to do them, it's pretty straight forward
d. I believe the Oceanreef lens is acrylic, too, but I ALWAYS keeps it in it's storage bag when not in use so as not to scratch it
e. They do actually may prescription inserts that can be installed in ffms, at least the Oceanreef, but I don't (yet) require them so no issue there
f. I will agree with having to remember to close the surface air valve (SAV) and there have been multiple times where I did forget and got some water into my mask. But it wasn't a fast leak and only entered when I inhaled. Once I remembered and close the SAV, though, the contained water was easy enough to purge out without even needed to depress the purge on the regulator.

My ffm was literally the first piece of gear I bought, along with my 1st stage, octo, and computer (Oceanic PP3 at the time) so I've been diving it almost exclusively, or at least I was until I started my DM course. Now I dive a traditional kit when I'm assisting with OW classes unless the instructor specifies that I can use my ffm. We have 2-3 instructors that actually teach in them and utilize an additional RX to verbally tell students what skills to do. So may argue that it's not good to expose brand new students to such diverse gear but it's still open circuit and doesn't deviate from standards and actually helps to teach them more about buddy checks and knowing their buddy's gear and how to work around it in the event of an emergency.

FFMs definitely aren't for everyone and I will be the first to tell anyone that. They are more cumbersome than a standard mask and they do take a lot more getting used to. But once you get comfortable in them, they're a great tool to have and can certainly enhance the pleasure of diving. But they can hinder it, too, if you can't get comfortable in them.

So my advice.....try one in a closed setting and see what you think. If you like it and feel like you can get used to it, then go for it! If not, hey you tried it and decided it wasn't for you. No harm no foul.

 

[АлександрД]

a. Somewhat counterintuitively, the full face mask has a narrower field of view than a regular dive mask. It really feels like tunnel vision.
b. It is a pain in the butt to equalize with an FFM. You have to either use a nose plug attachment, which is very uncomfortable, or else rely entirely on swallowing and wiggling your jaw.
c. The FFM has five straps that need to be adjusted, and it can take several minutes to get the fit just right.
d. The Guardian FFM has a cheap acrylic face plate, which gets easily scratched, and is particularly awful to look through at the surface.
e. You can't use prescription lenses. That's a big negative for me, and reason alone not to use a FFM.
f. The FFM has valves that have to be turned the right way to prevent water from entering the mask. Not rocket science, but something that's easy to forget, and an additional hassle.

"You do not like cats? You just have not skill for cooking of it!"
(origin: The only good cat is a stir-fried cat.(c) Alf)​

a. yes, but not for all of FFM. also e.g. same as Guardian - Interspiro MK-III (aka AGA Divator) has side windows.
b. agree... I hate such kind of equalizers... it was anoter big reason to made (rework) my own FFM Selfmade FFM (FullFaceMask) reworked from Gasmask - it has soft "nose" and easy equalized.
c. see about cats above. just once you need to adjust all straps. Late only two bottom straps should be released and tighted.
d. FFM as you told before - not for daily use. Just for real needs. And if you find money to buy it for this needs - you also can find patience to keep it far from sand and handle with care.
e. YOU CAN! much easy than any other masks. Guardian and Divator have googles holders, attached inside the mask.
https://www.amazon.com/Guardian-Eye-Wear-Insert/dp/B00ZOT163W
f. did not get you, what the valve? Atmosphere? - you will not forget to close it, trust me and if you are was teached to clean mask from the water - it will not a problem, opened atmosphere valve. Just once you can forget and goes to panic. later it will like yawn for you.

 

[lowviz]

How worth it is the SSI full face specialty course?
I watched OTS's videos on the mask and read up on stuff to practice such as removing/replacing underwater, clearing partial/full floods, switching to an alternative air source & backup mask, etc. All seems so straightforward that I could probably just practice this stuff in a pool.

Yes, you could. Or you could find an agency who is all about FFM's.

Speaking from past experience, yes, I would take the formal course.

Sleeping While Diving

 

[Bigbella]

The problem is if a FFM leaks, you can’t really clear it and if you have to take it off, you have no real way to breathe except by grabbing your octopus (which hopefully is working) and then you’re breathing with no mask.

with a half face mask, you can just clear it very easily or adjust it if it leaks.

I have used full face masks for decades, for work, occasionally for pleasure; and have yet to experience any flooding or difficulty that couldn't be solved by following the product's intended use. I never took a formal course in the use of FFM (they didn't exist at that time), but practiced in pools, until I felt comfortable doffing and donning them. My masks -- Poseidon Atmospheres -- utilize positive pressure and remain dry as a bone. Should there be any occurrence of water intrusion, a simple application of the purge button, while remaining face down, would clear everything . . .