Teaching ascent to new divers

[MichaelMc]

That video does not say that much. More informative is
Immersion pulmonary oedema explained
The hidden killer: Immersion pulmonary oedema (IPO)
On ease of breathing, 18:30 is illustrative, though in the context of IPO for the inhale phase.

IPO is eye opening, to me, and a compelling reason to me to dive horizontal, particularly given all the other good reasons to do so. I'm NOT saying this is the driving reason why a short ascent phase should be done horizontal, I think depth control is that reason and that ascending horizontal is no different than adjusting depth the rest of the dive.

On gaining back on exhale the extra effort that inhale took, that has not been my experience floating in a pool in skin gear, no snorkel, watching students on the surface, vertical vs horizontal.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Respectfully, you can't really achieve any semblance of buoyancy control without getting trim down first and you prove my contention that most don't understand the correlation. I call being horizontal the "Scuba position" and other than mask clearing in shallows, it's the first skill I introduce. Not getting it first dooms the new diver to a hundred or more dives trying to figure out their buoyancy. Get it done first, and then teach the entire course with flat trim and neutral and your students look like rock stars when you're done. It's all about comfort, and a trim and neutral student is far, far more comfortable because they are in control all the time. If they're in control from the beginning, then you spend no time trying to keep them from floating away and they learn, far, far faster. In other words, there's a bit of a time penalty early on, but you make it up as the class continues.

Students that are in control do everything more easily and with less drama... and that includes ascending.

I completely agree with you about trim during the 'dive phase', but we are purely talking about the ascent phase, where I would still argue that a gradual shift towards vertical is perfectly acceptable. I believe you're advocating pretty much the same from your post.

What I don't agree with are those that believe anything less than a horizontal ascent to the surface demonstrates a lack of diver and instructor skill.

 

[The Chairman]

Not saying that is a huge risk,

Yeah, this truly muddies the waters for OC. Fluid in your lungs can be caused by a wide range of factors including too much oxygen (like NitrOx). The work of breathing in CC is far, far higher than any OC, even while vertical, and often CC divers will add a bit of helium to reduce the effort. The few minutes during ascent are not enough to cause or exacerbate any edema even if there was any real WOB to deal with, but there really isn't.

What I don't agree with are those that believe anything less than a horizontal ascent to the surface demonstrates a lack of diver and instructor skill.

I would agree with that as well. There are many times during a dive when horizontal is not the best position. Sometimes, I'm head down, sideways, angled this way or that so that I can see various critters. For the most part, I'm flat.

A poor instructor will have their students all over the place. They look like they're on a roller coaster ride. They plop to the bottom, cork to the surface, have no situational awareness of their fins and usually have that wide eyed "I think I'm gonna die" look. Demonstrate control. Teach control by your example. Require control. I've shared this before and probably too many times, but in order to graduate from the pool, my students have to do the following. With an inflated BC on the surface, show that they can let out the right amount of air to initiate a descent and stop before hitting the bottom using only their breathing. Without touching their inflator, they have to breathe themselves to the surface and back down to the bottom three times in a controlled manner. On their final trip to the bottom, I have 6 2-pound weights on the bottom. They swim over and pick up a 2-pound weight and then breathe themselves neutral. They keep picking up weights until they can't stay neutral. Now they have to drop weights, one by one, and stay near the bottom. Women must successfully manage at least 4 pounds and men must manage 6. The record by a student was 14 pounds and I have managed 18. Once they have proven they have control, I allow them into Open Water, but not before. They look like rock stars on their dives after that.

 

[Miyaru]

This topic put a smile on my face...again.
When you start horizontal, neutrally buoyant, during the very first confined dive, you never have this discussion.

The student only knows the feeling of hovering horizontally, the bottom is just for reference. And it works. Of course, hardly any student knows how much air to add during that first dive, so I do it. Mask skills, regulator skills.

As for the ascent, horizontal position until reaching safety stop depth. I deploy an SMB and usually hand over the finger reel to a student or buddy pair for the next 3 minutes. The final part of the ascent is usually horizontal when there is a sloping bottom, or when surfacing in a boat-free area. The only vertical ascents during OW are the cesa exercise, air sharing ascent, or when surfacing with possible boat traffic.

Lots of dive masters hang vertically on their SMB during the safety stop. I'm always amused when my students tell me afterwards, that they asked why and never got a solid answer from the DM...

I still see loads of instructors on their knees with their class. Or swimming near-vertical. And topics about it will keep coming up as well.
Maybe those topics will make new student divers aware of this, and in the future they might choose an instructor based on this, instead of just accepting who ever was assigned to their class by the dive center.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Yeah, this truly muddies the waters for OC. Fluid in your lungs can be caused by a wide range of factors including too much oxygen (like NitrOx). The work of breathing in CC is far, far higher than any OC, even while vertical, and often CC divers will add a bit of helium to reduce the effort. The few minutes during ascent are not enough to cause or exacerbate any edema even if there was any real WOB to deal with, but there really isn't.


I would agree with that as well. There are many times during a dive when horizontal is not the best position. Sometimes, I'm head down, sideways, angled this way or that so that I can see various critters. For the most part, I'm flat.

A poor instructor will have their students all over the place. They look like they're on a roller coaster ride. They plop to the bottom, cork to the surface, have no situational awareness of their fins and usually have that wide eyed "I think I'm gonna die" look. Demonstrate control. Teach control by your example. Require control. I've shared this before and probably too many times, but in order to graduate from the pool, my students have to do the following. With an inflated BC on the surface, show that they can let out the right amount of air to initiate a descent and stop before hitting the bottom using only their breathing. Without touching their inflator, they have to breathe themselves to the surface and back down to the bottom three times in a controlled manner. On their final trip to the bottom, I have 6 2-pound weights on the bottom. They swim over and pick up a 2-pound weight and then breathe themselves neutral. They keep picking up weights until they can't stay neutral. Now they have to drop weights, one by one, and stay near the bottom. Women must successfully manage at least 4 pounds and men must manage 6. The record by a student was 14 pounds and I have managed 18. Once they have proven they have control, I allow them into Open Water, but not before. They look like rock stars on their dives after that.

I like the breath control weight pick-up /drop-off strategy for CW. Hope you don't mind if I rob that idea to use for my CW5 dives

 

[The Chairman]

I like the breath control weight pick-up /drop-off strategy for CW. Hope you don't mind if I rob that idea to use for my CW5 dives

Yeah, I spread it out all the time. It forces the student to understand how breathing affects their buoyancy and imparts a good deal of confidence. While not a part of their "final", I also have them build houses out of those same 2 pound weights. It teaches them how to hover rather than just swim, and the continuous picking up and putting down of the two pound weights while they attempt to build two story houses with them makes the skill second nature for them.

 

[decompression]

A bit humorous, I know, but I teach every open water student as if they will become a multi stage, Trimix, CCR, exploration cave diver.......
Begin with the end in mind......

So....right from the beginning, horizontal ascents are taught.....only in the last 10 feet to surface do they transition to vertical. Then, no retraining of bad habits and it becomes muscle memory.....further, all the negatives are avoided......

I’m also faced with the challenge of teaching drysuit in the pool and open water......although a bit easier to get into trim, it’s a challenge to get complete newbies to control 2 sources of bouyancy while using the lungs for ascents and decents.

 

[Edward3c]

...
I’m also faced with the challenge of teaching drysuit in the pool and open water......although a bit easier to get into trim, it’s a challenge to get complete newbies to control 2 sources of bouyancy while using the lungs for ascents and decents.

Why not just teach the drysuit only, less task loading.

It’s not that both suit and buoyancy device shouldn’t be used together, but the amount of lift available is normally beyond elementary diver grades.

 

[The Chairman]

So....right from the beginning, horizontal ascents are taught.....only in the last 10 feet to surface do they transition to vertical.

You never exited the Ear at Ginnie, have you?

However, my goal is a bit less ambitious. I want them to be able to take cavern right out of OW. In fact, I encourage them to do that.

 

[tursiops]

You never exited the Ear at Ginnie, have you?

However, my goal is a bit less ambitious. I want them to be able to take cavern right out of OW. In fact, I encourage them to do that.

I appeciate the thought, but cavern usually has an AOW prereq.