Palm Beach diver loses arm as group hit by boat - Florida

[HalcyonDaze]

SCUBA divers are one thing; on most recreational dives sites unless a deep-draft cargo ship is plowing through they aren't at risk until they surface. If diving from a boat, the flag is more for the boat crew to keep track of them than to actually ward off other boaters on its own. Often in my experience trying to tow a flag at depth is more trouble than it's worth, so I'm fine with just the DM carrying one for the group and having a big DSMB for myself. Snorkelers are a different story; they will be spending most of their time on the surface or shallow and don't have the option of just hugging the bottom.

That said, it's a boat operator's responsibility to not hit things, and that includes divers, swimmers, or anything else (like say, floating debris). Providing a highly visible surface marker has to be balanced against the ease of towing it, and there's little point in dragging around giant flags, buoys the size and shape of a mini-fridge, or red-and-white windmills if boaters are still going to blatantly ignore them. [Edited by moderator]

 

[KathyV]

Carter's Mother, an incredibly brave person, posted an update on his CaringBridge page. The only "good news" is that he is left-handed and it was his right arm that was amputated by the propeller.

"...Monday, Carter will undergo surgery to repair his left wrist. He is left handed. It will begin with exploratory surgery and may lead to a plate, pins, etc. They are waiting to begin work on his legs as they need to “rest” from the newly installed fixators..."

I am sure that we will all be keeping him and his family in our thoughts and prayers.

 

[kelemvor]

Time for flag laws to change. 12 inch flag is not adequate. Increase size to 24 inches and the bottom of the flag must be at least 36 inches above the water.

I agree that it's time for the law to change. However I don't think changing the size of the flag is the answer. There simply needs to be some significant punishment for violating the flag law. Currently it's like a $15 fine or something laughably similar. it should be on the order of a minimum 6 months in prison and $100k or so (if the violator is a business). Enough that most businesses would have to worry about continued existence after a violation. This way a judge wouldn't have the latitude to give some rich kid a slap on the wrist. That would be much more effective. Currently there isn't much reason for boaters to obey flag laws in Florida other than that they might want to.

 

[Rooster59]

I think what would hurt a reckless boat driver the most would be for a judge to ban the boat from sailing for a long time. Owner may have payments, slip fees, insurance, etc. but the SS Minnow isn't going anywhere for 1, 5, 10+ years. Slap a temporary lien on the boat for 10x it's value so it won't be sold to a friend, sister, etc. Drunk trust funders just laugh at fines.

 

[aviator8]

I got this flag awhile back. I have not used it yet and am extremely wary of boats as I have heard from my brother what they can do. He has responded to a few boating accidents and its pretty horrific. Is this flag decent?
Deluxe Flag Float Kit

 

[scubadada]

I got this flag awhile back. I have not used it yet and am extremely wary of boats as I have heard from my brother what they can do. He has responded to a few boating accidents and its pretty horrific. Is this flag decent?
Deluxe Flag Float Kit

Looks pretty good, I use these A flag that is less of a drag?

 

[aviator8]

Looks pretty good, I use these A flag that is less of a drag?

I don’t have a handheld reel, just a spool and this thing which I’m sure I will hate. Lines too thick and it’s too bulky. I’m going to need to work out a different line holder.

 

[scubadada]

I don’t have a handheld reel, just a spool and this thing which I’m sure I will hate. Lines too thick and it’s too bulky. I’m going to need to work out a different line holder.
View attachment 553048

I used one of these for many years, it actually works fine

 

[Bob DBF]

I agree that it's time for the law to change. However I don't think changing the size of the flag is the answer.

It’s not the whole answer, but the easier it is to see the more likely it is to be acknowledged.

There simply needs to be some significant punishment for violating the flag law. Currently it's like a $15 fine or something laughably similar. it should be on the order of a minimum 6 months in prison and $100k or so (if the violator is a business).

Then, I would hope, you are in favor of using the same punishment for a yield sign on the highway. The punishment should be in line with the offense.

Currently there isn't much reason for boaters to obey flag laws in Florida other than that they might want to.

That needs to be changed, but I don’t think summarily executing offenders is the proper way to do it, although it could work.

1. Research a reasonable way to increase the visibility of dive flags. And make clearcut definitions of offenses.

2. Start with a $500 fine, loss of boating privileges (all states are starting some kind of boating license program) for a year, community service about dive flag awareness, and recertification to operate a boat.

If the boat “gets away” but is identified, it is confiscated until the operator is identified.

3. Increase penalties for each repeat offense.

4. Set up undercover enforcement at dive locations. Once law enforcement takes it seriously, so will boaters.


Once there is an accident, a whole different set of laws apply.



Bob

 

[CuzzA]

Once there is an accident, a whole different set of laws apply.

Yep, and in civil court all you need is a preponderance of the evidence (not reasonable doubt) on your side that the boat operator was careless and responsible for the damage done. Unless the boat owner has a really good marine insurance policy or a good liability umbrella policy, my guess is he won't be owning that YellowFin for very long.