Switching Certification Agencies

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ehhh he's just a forum jockey..... not worth the words on the webpage :)

Just finished my advanced trimix. Headed to mexico to find a cave trainer in Feb. You bet your ass I wont care about what agency if any is used.
 
Unless you are a dive proffessional, you do not belong to any agency, you just buy training from them.

And as a point of intrest, when did NAUI stop being a nonprofit?


Bob

Again, not strictly true.
It very much depends on the ethos of the organisation.

PADI (among others) are a commercial organisation, with an objective to make a profit, for the owners/share holders. The instructors are agents of the organisation.

The BSAC, is a members club, it is run for the benefit of its members. They 'may' be instructors, they 'may' be officers of the individual branches, they 'may' be members of the BSAC council.
The vast majority of members are just divers, who pay their annual membership fee. Some members are direct members, who pay just the BSAC membership and are a member of BSAC, having access to services and training run by HQ or the regions. Most are branch members, paying both the BSAC membership, and a branch membership. No two branches are the same, the facilities provided by the branches differ significantly. Some have limited additional features, other than a group who want to go diving. Most provide diver training. Some have additional, facilities, compressors, blending stations, RHIB's, some even own large boats.
There are also 'special branches', all military recreational diving is done via 'special branches'. Universities have special branches, as do some companies.

Although a member of SISAC in the East of the UK, I have dived with Penzance Branch in the South Westpast. Having phoned their diving officer and asked if I could join them whilst I was in the area. The cost to me was a contribution to the fuel, and a few pints in the bar.

It is perhaps a peculiar feature of the British. We form clubs, Football (Soccer), Rugby, Cricket, Bowls, Dining, Drinking, Polo etc. Some are complete informal, others have a structure and an affiliation to a governing body.
 
In the end, they all teach you how to dive.
No. Your instructor teaches you to dive, not the agency. It might seem like a fine point, but your class is only as good as your instructor and not the hype put out by any agency. Should you be injured or die in a class, the agency will go out of their way to make that a distinct point, rather than a fine one.

Even then, neither the agency nor the instructor will dive for you. How 'good' you are depends only on you. Your trim, buoyancy, propulsion, situational awareness, dive planning, etc, etc all depend on you. I'm a far, far better diver than my OW instructor by any standard you choose to use. You're not stuck with any sucky skills they teach you, nor are you obliged to use the great ones either. It's all up to you.
 
I agree with you but sometimes vastly different viewpoints can confuse and convolute and then you're in a worse place than you started. What do you think?
Mix it up. Figure out what works for you and toss the rest. If you're confused, then your instructor is not doing their job. I first learned to dive from a Master Chief at the USN Training Center in Orlando. 30 years and many dives later, I finally got certified and went through DM with the same instructor. I took a NitrOx class from someone else, but then I took my ITC with another agency. Whoa. I did myself no favors having only that one instructor. Oh, I had the knowledge in spite of him, but I picked up some horrible, horrible habits. Horrible. Since then, I've had at least twenty different instructors. I learn how to teach from each one as well as how to dive. Sure, there are a few where I learned what NOT to do when teaching, but that's rare. No doubt about it, but many of my great habits, ideas and skills came from various instructors and divers here on ScubaBoard.
 
And as a point of intrest, when did NAUI stop being a nonprofit?
2006? I think? Part of them is still a non-profit. The publishing side is for profit. Their president at the time wasn't even a diver and was quite proud of that fact. He didn't understand the internet either.
 
Mix it up. Figure out what works for you and toss the rest. If you're confused, then your instructor is not doing their job. I first learned to dive from a Master Chief at the USN Training Center in Orlando. 30 years and many dives later, I finally got certified and went through DM with the same instructor. I took a NitrOx class from someone else, but then I took my ITC with another agency. Whoa. I did myself no favors having only that one instructor. Oh, I had the knowledge in spite of him, but I picked up some horrible, horrible habits. Horrible. Since then, I've had at least twenty different instructors. I learn how to teach from each one as well as how to dive. Sure, there are a few where I learned what NOT to do when teaching, but that's rare. No doubt about it, but many of my great habits, ideas and skills came from various instructors and divers here on ScubaBoard.

An interesting point is that some of the best divers make absolutely awful instructors, and conversely, some awful instructors are fantastic divers.
By that I mean teaching, and communicating knowledge is a skill. Some people are natural teachers, others will never be able to grasp the knack of communicating information and knowledge.

At the entry level, a good instructor (teacher) in many ways is better for the student than someone who is an excellent diver.

It is true that you lead by example, and having good skills and technique gives a student a level or competence to aspire to achieve. But the biggest initial hurdle is that first step. The suttleties of fine trim, buoyancy and technique are more often than not missed by those initially learning to dive. These become more importance post initial qualification, when you really learn to dive, to apply the skills and knowledge imparted to you by your instructor. That is when you start to watch others, adapt and aspire to match those that you percieve as better than yourself.

For some, learning to dive is like falling off a log. Understanding the physics and maths of diving appears simple.
For others the practical element is a high wall to climb, and the theory seems mystic and beyond mortal man. For the second group they need a good teacher, who break down the theory into understandable elements,the practical skills into small manageable components. All the time inspiring confidence and fun. That is truely a skill.
As an instructor you are not tested, even by the most advanced course you teach, until you teach someone who struggles to master each and every simple skill. This is when your metal as an instructor is tested.
 
The suttleties of fine trim, buoyancy and technique are more often than not missed by those initially learning to dive. These become more importance post initial qualification, when you really learn to dive,
You were doing great until you posted this. :D Trim is the foundation of being neutral, which is the foundation of propulsion, all of which are the foundation of control and safe diving.

The best instructors are also great divers, but the converse is is not always true. You can't teach anyone trim & buoyancy if you can't or won't dive that way.
 
You were doing great until you posted this. :D Trim is the foundation of being neutral, .

Not really true.
It you took a cylinder, you could make it neutral in a number of orientations.
e.g. a Submarine, you can make it Neutral, but it could be bow up 60 degrees.


Old divers, pre Fenzy, used to have to be Neutral you swam down, then you swam up, but in modern terms they had God awful trim. They wouldn't consider hanging horizontally in the water. They would just hold onto the shot line or lift bag vertically in the water.

True, Trim is the foundation of efficient swimming, and comfortable diving. But we have the added advantages of a buoyancy device over the early scuba divers.
I spend a considerable amount of time, trying to improve the trim and buoyancy skills of our newer divers. Partly because I don't want them kicking up the bottom ruining the vis' and ruining my photo opportunities :).
 
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