Switching Certification Agencies

[The Chairman]

Not really true.

Then we completely disagree. A non-trim diver has to deal with thrust induced buoyancy. The constant back and forth of when they are kicking (more buoyancy) and not kicking (less buoyancy) is why they are not in control at the beginning. The first part of my OW class is dedicated to trim because of this. There should never be a need for a PPB class.

 

[Gareth J]

Then we completely disagree. A non-trim diver has to deal with thrust induced buoyancy. The constant back and forth of when they are kicking (more buoyancy) and not kicking (less buoyancy) is why they are not in control at the beginning. The first part of my OW class is dedicated to trim because of this. There should never be a need for a PPB class.

Sorry, I was being pedantic.
Neutral = motionless in the water, neither going up or going down. This would be irrespective of angle or position.

Forward movement when Neutral in a head up posture = movement up through the water due to the propulsion and the effect of the body position.
Forward movement when Neutral in a head down posture = movement down through the water due to propulsion and the effect of the body position.

The last two are the effect of incorrect trim, with propulsion (force).

I don't disagree with your statement or view in any way. Just being over pedantic with terminology .

One of the great improvements in modern diver training, is the increased focus on buoyancy and trim. Which is part of a better ecological attitude, and conservation attitude, be that the ecology, or the history (wrecks).

One of our challenges is teaching in a confined space, the pool, then transitioning to open water, where we need drysuits, gloves and hoods once we move to open water.
You get trim and buoyancy sorted in the pool, although the issue of swimming and posture is restricted by the space. Then you stick them in a drysuit, with thick gloves and hoods and we have to start all over again in open water. Makes life interesting though.

I watched a presentation on effects of cold on divers and off gassing. Greatly amused when they referred to cold water as 27C for the test subjects. Then it became apparent that the tests had been done in Florida. Their definition of cold and warm water differs significantly from mine . Mind you, those in Scandinavia have a different concept than I do of warm water .

 

[EireDiver606]

Which?

Take a guess

I too find it interesting that @EireDiver606 is all over correcting posters yet won't let anyone, even members, view 'personal information' on this board. So my suspicion is that he is part of the weaker subset of DIR divers who join just because "If you challenge me, you challenge all of us.

1. I was half joking when I wrote those posts. I could'nt help myself set off some of the grumpy divers on forums...
2. You do not know me, so stop wasting your time assuming things about me?
3. lol

 

[tursiops]

Take a guess

OK, I'll play. My guess is none, and you were just flapping your mouth for no good reason other than to troll and irritate.

 

[Bob DBF]

The BSAC, is a members club, it is run for the benefit of its members. They 'may' be instructors, they 'may' be officers of the individual branches, they 'may' be members of the BSAC council.
The vast majority of members are just divers, who pay their annual membership fee. Some members are direct members, who pay just the BSAC membership and are a member of BSAC, having access to services and training run by HQ or the regions. Most are branch members, paying both the BSAC membership, and a branch membership. No two branches are the same, the facilities provided by the branches differ significantly. Some have limited additional features, other than a group who want to go diving. Most provide diver training. Some have additional, facilities, compressors, blending stations, RHIB's, some even own large boats.
There are also 'special branches', all military recreational diving is done via 'special branches'. Universities have special branches, as do some companies.

Thanks for the info. It's these posts that give me an idea how the BSAC works, as direct information in the states is a bit sparse.

It you took a cylinder, you could make it neutral in a number of orientations.
e.g. a Submarine, you can make it Neutral, but it could be bow up 60 degrees.

I agree, and consider myself a little one person sub, since I don't ride the real ones anymore. Trim is a matter of insuring you are efficient in propelling oneself in the direction chosen.

As an example, If I am at a 30 degree up angle propelling myself at that angle to get where I need to be, what is wrong with my trim? Now if I was at that 30 degree angle kicking at that angle to propel myself horosontally, I would agree that would be bad trim. It's a matter of intent and execution.


Bob

 

[lowviz]

@Bob DBF, I break trim a lot while looking at stuff or angling into a side current...

 

[Angelo Farina]

Thanks for the info. It's these posts that give me an idea how the BSAC works, as direct information in the states is a bit sparse.

Probably not relevant to you, but traditional Italian organisations FIPS and FIAS are very similar to BSAC.
They are "federations" (the leading "F" of their names) of local clubs.
Both clubs and their federations are no-profit.
FIPS is affiliated to CONI, the national Olympics sport body, which gets financial support from the government. Instead FIAS is truly an NGO.
For international recognition of certifications both are affiliated to CMAS.
In my understanding almost all the bodies affiliated to CMAS, here in Europe, have similar structure and finalities: all no profit, based on the activities of clubs of divers.
Instead typically the American-based organizations, as PADI, are based on diving equipment shops or professional diving centers at the sea.

 

[Bob DBF]

@Bob DBF, I break trim a lot while looking at stuff or angling into a side current...

If you buy into the scuba definition of horosontal trim is the only proper trim, then you are. If you are more broad minded and closer to the definition if trim, as long as you are efficient in your actions you can decide what is the proper trim for the situation, I do.

Considering the number of bicycling specialists, I can understand the emphasis on horosontal trim and propulsion, however it's a bit much after one is past that.


Bob

 

[MichaelMc]

It you took a cylinder, you could make it neutral in a number of orientations.
e.g. a Submarine, you can make it Neutral, but it could be bow up 60 degrees.

Sorry, I was being pedantic.
Neutral = motionless in the water, neither going up or going down. This would be irrespective of angle or position.

I'd say:
- Neutral = gravity is having no net effect on you. (on your center of mass)
- Constant position = motionless in the water, neither going up or going down.
Irrespective of angle or buoyancy, and could be from being negative and thrusting up.

I'm all for using the most useful angle (/trim). Just that is often horizontal. But not always. And which you pick should be a choice, not because gravity and differences in your density give you no other choice, absent kicking to fight rotation toward dense parts down and light parts up.

'Let's got down and over there', best is likely, and most fun, swimming angled down.
'Let's go up and over there', best might be to be a bit slower with the depth change, due to assent rate issues, so best might be drift up while kicking horizontally. Not the only way, but a prudent way to kept front of mind and in your ability.

 

[The Chairman]

One of the great improvements in modern diver training, is the increased focus on buoyancy and trim. Which is part of a better ecological attitude, and conservation attitude, be that the ecology, or the history (wrecks).

Some seem to think diver training has been "dumbed down", but I agree with you. The current emphasis is on being in control rather than all over the place.

Most new divers swim with their feet down and head up. Why not? We like our head above our feet. Consequently, they always are light when swimming and/or heavy when they are not. Getting them into horizontal trim and teaching them how to breathe up or down rather than using the angle of the dangle, gives them a huge head start in mastering their buoyancy from the very beginning. No need for a 100 dives to figure it out, if it's taught from the beginning.