Streamlined OW Regulator Setup

[AustinV]

The first reg set I purchased after OW certification was the Dive Rite "Advanced Streamlined" or whatever they call it, so I had 50+ dives on that before going back to "standard" setup when using a rental reg on vacation somewhere. I much prefer (and it could just be due to more exposure, but I don't think so) the bungeed secondary around neck and longer hose under arm. Also when I went to doubles with a 7' hose the hose routing and bungeed secondary location all clicked right away. Only real difference was the length of one hose and routing around neck.

 

[Nemrod]

Alec on this subject. ----------- into another unwatchable mess for anyone who understands the use of a long hose or the method of donating the primary. ------- I'll admit I didn't see the merits of the primary donate/long hose system until I used it when I went through my tech training. ----

I think that was the point he was making and you made it again for him, 96% of all sport/recreational divers are not trained to breath a long hose or donate the primary (on long hose) and will be looking for a yellow colored hose/second stage that is positioned in the chest area of their buddy. So, as you stated, they would not be among the "anyone who understands the use of a long hose" clearly.

I dive both configurations and fully understand them and agree with Alec, the long hose was specifically developed for certain types of technical diving and I agree with you that it is an excellent system for team diving with like configurations and training, be it technical or otherwise. But the standard system, specifically developed for sport diving, of donating a octopus second stage also on a long(er) hose while retaining the short hose primary is consistent with all ABC agencies, accepted by the industry, practiced by 96% of all sport and recreational divers and works just fine. And like any method and configuration requires training, practice and understanding.

N

 

[Manatee Diver]

But the standard system, specifically developed for sport diving, of donating a octopus second stage also on a long(er) hose while retaining the short hose primary is consistent with all ABC agencies, accepted by the industry, practiced by 96% of all sport and recreational divers and works just fine. And like any method and configuration requires training, practice and understanding.

With the rise of the Air 2 and similar systems people need to get used to primary donate. I've been on boats where between the tech divers and the recreational divers diving Air 2s almost the entire boat was primary donate.

 

[tursiops]

With the rise of the Air 2 and similar systems people need to get used to primary donate. I've been on boats where between the tech divers and the recreational divers diving Air 2s almost the entire boat was primary donate.

Good point about Air2 clones being primary donate. In addition, how many Air2 owners have ever practiced an ascent using it? it can be tricky....much harder to manage than the "streamlined" system, especially if you have to vent gas from your BC.

 

[AFdivedoc]

I think that was the point he was making and you made it again for him, 96% of all sport/recreational divers are not trained to breath a long hose or donate the primary (on long hose) and will be looking for a yellow colored hose/second stage that is positioned in the chest area of their buddy. So, as you stated, they would not be among the "anyone who understands the use of a long hose" clearly.

I dive both configurations and fully understand them and agree with Alec, the long hose was specifically developed for certain types of technical diving and I agree with you that it is an excellent system for team diving with like configurations and training, be it technical or otherwise. But the standard system, specifically developed for sport diving, of donating a octopus second stage also on a long(er) hose while retaining the short hose primary is consistent with all ABC agencies, accepted by the industry, practiced by 96% of all sport and recreational divers and works just fine. And like any method and configuration requires training, practice and understanding.

N

I will also occasionally dive a standard setup, and when I'm in the recreational instructor mode, I teach using that setup for the point you make--most of the recreational diving world uses it. I'm definitely not an activist for everyone using a long hose--I just prefer it when I'm diving for fun. I did find his examples of OOA situations somewhat divorced from reality. Grabbing the pretty yellow octo from the chest of a diver who is upright and has it plainly visible happens when we set it up that way in Open Water class. We've all seen octos dangling loose in the water, dragging in sand/mud, stuffed into BCDs in ways that make it impossible to retrieve, etc. In the real world, I see the ones that went wrong, panic ensued, the diver(s) made a rapid ascent, and wound up injured or worse. Some panic and head for the surface with divers sporting readily available air sources (primary or secondary donor) almost in arms reach. Regardless of your air sharing setup, whichever method you choose has to be briefed and occasionally practiced. Dissimilar gear is not a problem for divers who are conscientious about this and have their brain engaged.

I agree that people who have no training or experience with donating the primary should get some training or stay away from it. It did irk me that Alec seemed to have some not-so-well thought out criticisms of the long hose/primary donate system--one that he admittedly has no experience with.

 

[Bob DBF]

Good point about Air2 clones being primary donate. In addition, how many Air2 owners have ever practiced an ascent using it? it can be tricky....much harder to manage than the "streamlined" system, especially if you have to vent gas from your BC.

I didn't find any problem using my Air2 clone, or my buddy using his Air2, as both had pull dumps. I understand some of the older Air2 did not have a pull dump, but both old and new has a dump lever on the BC inflation fitting. We practiced air share ascents, as we also did when I tried long hose configurations, ending with a 40" primary and bungeed backup. Of course I don't know any diver expects to be proficient at an air share without practice.

I normally solo and that configuration is the best I've found, so far, for my diving. It had nothing to do with streamlining. If I wanted to be streamlined, I'd drop the backup second, wing and try to find a Faber MP 72, of course I wouldn't be diving off many charters.


Dive and let dive.

Bob

 

[Belzelbub]

This generally works very well among divers who know and train with this configuration, however, it will not be known to the average diver out there in the world.

This would largely depend on the agency, and when the training occurred, but there has at least been training out there using the primary donate method for quite some time. I've been in 4 OW checkout clases (2 were for me, 2 were for my kids) from 3-4 different agencies. Below are year of the class, agency, and what was taught.

1990 PADI: Octo donate
1997 YMCA & NAUI: Primary donate.
2016 SSI: Primary donate
2019 SSI: Primary donate

With the rise of the Air 2 and similar systems people need to get used to primary donate. I've been on boats where between the tech divers and the recreational divers diving Air 2s almost the entire boat was primary donate.

Very good point. I had adapted to the primary donate after my second OW course, but now use an Octo-Z inflator as my secondary. When my kids were certified, I had them certify in a very similar gear configuration. I wanted to make sure they were used to the setup they would be using, at least for the near future. Alternate configurations can come later if they decide.

Communication with buddies is key in case it's needed. However, an OOA diver should signal, and then you offer whichever setup you use. OOA diver should then accept that and you both begin the ascent once OK confirmed. A panicking diver may grab for the first regulator they see, which may or may not be the one in your mouth. Whichever it is, if it's not the best option, let them calm down, then switch and begin ascent, or just begin the ascent if it's workable. A lot will depend on the experience level of the diver.

 

[Nemrod]

If you are Air 2 then you would donate the Air 2, not your primary or only. Well, it could go either way but if the Air 2 diver is using a short hose primary, then he/she will be handing off the Air 2, if they are using a long(er) hose 36 inches plus, then they could certainly donate the primary and themselves use the Air 2 for a direct to surface ascent. Air 2s and buddy bottles, pony bottles and auxiliary bottles gets off into another world and is not generally taught as a primary dive configuration by any abc agency, sport or tech oriented.

I do not have a problem with either way, long or short, primary or secondary donation or handing off a bottle (Air 2) as long as you and your buddy understand each others system and if you have an insta buddy there is a discussion between each their expectations for sharing air. The main reason for the buddy system is diver (and air) redundancy, as long as your system and training and pre-dive discussion with a buddy accommodates that potential need to air share, good with me. I am not a believer in only one way, my way or the highway, one best way or in particular standard configurations being force fitted to every dive and diver.

N

 

[scubadada]

With an Air 2, the standard would be to donate your primary and breathe off the Air 2. I can't imagine trying to donate an Air 2

 

[saxman242]

If you are Air 2 then you would donate the Air 2, not your primary or only. Well, it could go either way but if the Air 2 diver is using a short hose primary, then he/she will be handing off the Air 2, if they are using a long(er) hose 36 inches plus, then they could certainly donate the primary and themselves use the Air 2 for a direct to surface ascent. Air 2s and buddy bottles, pony bottles and auxiliary bottles gets off into another world and is not generally taught as a primary dive configuration by any abc agency, sport or tech oriented.

I do not have a problem with either way, long or short, primary or secondary donation or handing off a bottle (Air 2) as long as you and your buddy understand each others system and if you have an insta buddy there is a discussion between each their expectations for sharing air. The main reason for the buddy system is diver (and air) redundancy, as long as your system and training and pre-dive discussion with a buddy accommodates that potential need to air share, good with me. I am not a believer in only one way, my way or the highway, one best way or in particular standard configurations being force fitted to every dive and diver.

N

I think you may be confused as to what an air 2 is... I'm not sure how to make sense of this otherwise