How many students fail your course?

[Scraps]

Another academic analogy:

I knew a professor who, when teaching graduate-level classes, would assign one of only two grades: an "A" or an "Incomplete.

"If you've mastered the material, you deserve an "A." If you haven't, you're not done yet."

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

I appreciate your integrity! I wish more counties and departments did formal training, instead of just "training" each other in house and calling it good. And formal training only works if the end result is demonstrable competence, which you're clearly expecting.

Thank you @pauldw for the kind words.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

That reminds me of the joke of the young female college student going to her professors's office hours, closing the door.
Her: "Professor, I'll do "anything" to pass this class" (in a seductive voice)
Him: "Anything?" (in a whispering voice implying something else)
Her: "Yessss" (whispering back)
Him: "Would you ...." (whispering)
Her: "oh yes" (moaning)
Him: "study?!" (normal voice with exclamation)

Completely unrelated topic, and not a joke, but when I was a career Police Officer I pulled a young lady over one night for speeding. After conducting a traffic stop, I proceeded to issue her a citation for speeding. She looked me square in the eye and said, "I didn't think you wrote pretty girls tickets." I responded, "I don't, here is your ticket." Wouldn't you know, she complained to my chief and told him I called her ugly. We still laugh about it today.

 

[Nemrod]

In a perfect world where one is allowed to master and practice to perfection an exercise then that would be wonderful and produce excellent divers. And yes, beginners should be given the opportunity to learn. But not on a coral reef or sensitive environment, where I have over decades observed these divers who clearly did not master buoyancy control, understand the need for horizontal positioning with fins up and environmental sensitivity then crash onto the bottom butt first, and then bounce across the reef, boing, boing, boing, before semi-stabilizing into the water walker position as the move through the water swimming as if on an elliptical treadmill, smashing the reef with their fins and dragging their fins over the coral and worse, deliberately hanging on the reef. This is what results from 100% pass rates and instructors who pass all and are clearly not producing beginning/new divers ready to learn and advance their skills. These divers are often in just a survival world as they water walk across the reef. N

 

[1atm]

I'd wonder what percentage of gue students get a tech pass their first try at fundies.

I’m not an instructor, but GUE does publish some figures in their annual reports (Annual Reports). Unfortunately the format and level of details varies by year, but if you connect the dots it gives a good picture.

Fundamentals

Most useful info is in the 2016 report, average pass rate of 78% for fundamentals over a 10 year period. For 2016, it appears that out of the passes, 62% were Rec pass and 38% were Tech pass. That would indicate that for 2016, 32% received a Tech pass on their first go at Fundamentals. If you run the numbers for the other, more representative years, it points to ~23% for Tech pass on the first go.



Technical

Not much more info given, but extrapolating from the classes I took (eg one of my Cave 1 peers didnt pass), or from other folk I know, I appears the most common reason for failing the higher level classes is not diving/practicing enough since Fundies. Thus going into C1/T1 with skills worse than when passing Fundies.



Recreational

Note that a pass in Rec1 gives you a Fundamentals Rec pass from the get go (and in extremely rare cases in theory even a Tech pass although I’d guess that is extremely rare). I’d also wager that GUE Rec1 is only taken by dedicated spouses of committed GUE divers. To someone new to the sport it would seem horribly expensive and long compared to eg PADI, even though you get a lot more for your money. Eg it includes Nitrox, deeper max depth, maybe even a rescue primer (not sure). Also the standards are significantly higher than those of Recreational focused agencies (a topic with pros and cons that would probably warrant its own thread).

But given that almost nobody takes this course I’d say there isnt enough meaningful data to draw conclusions on GUEs recreational curriculum. GUE remains a cave/tech plus project/exploration focused agency in my book.

 

[Ben_3]

I’ve seen a couple of OW students need 1 on 1 or have to come back for extra practice. I have yet to see someone fail/achieve AOW or above.

 

[Germie]

I don't fail people, but they get the chance to come back later. I had a few who quitted. Some went to another instructor, but also had problems there.

Is a provisional with gue a fail?

I have never done a course where I failed.

 

[1atm]

Is a provisional with gue a fail?

No, provisional is provisional, it is its own rating. There are three possible outcomes: pass, provisional, fail (see the chart above).

Provisional means that you are not unsafe (unsafe would be a fail), but didn't meet the standard in all dimensions, so you are encouraged to practice and come back for a re-evaluation. So it’s the equivalent of, in your own words above, “get the chance to come back later”. (Disclaimer: I am not a GUE instructor, so for a definite answer you’d need to ask one).

Edit: basically “provisional” is a formalized way by the agency to do what most committed and responsible instructors of other agencies would do anyhow, even if not explicitly provided for by their agency,

 

[Ayisha]

Is a provisional with gue a fail?

A provisional pass means the student didn't pass (ex. get a 3) in all areas but is close, and has 6 months to upgrade it to a pass.

A fail is when the instructor deems the student unsafe. The student cannot just complete a checkout dive at a later date, like with a provisional. They would have to repeat the course if they still wish to.

Since GUE Fundamentals has been split for a few years as Fundamentals Part 1 (the old Primer - no c-card) and Part 2 (Pass - c-card/Provisional/Fail), occurring one right after the other or split up, I suspect the difference now will be in the number of students who go on to Part 2 and complete Part 2 with whichever outcome. The students who move on to begin Part 2 (even months later after practicing) would be further self-selected and further re-accepted by the instructor, so the percentage of Fundamentals Passes will likely increase over the earlier days.

 

[Germie]

So a provisional is not counted as a fail. Then almost nobody will fail.

The amount of divers that stop in cmas clubs here without getting a 1* open water cert is big. Last year in my club it was 50%. The reason is the slow way of teaching. 6 pool sessions take 1 winter, then you go outside with only 1 dive a week as maximum. The motivation goes down and down. It is not failing, but loosing motivation.