liveaboard.com Can I trust them?

[chillyinCanada]

Chilly, why do you keep trying to divert this thread from the real question / topic of whether LiveAboards ratings and review system needs fixing.

The question of How to achieve something is somewhat secondary when there’s corporate obtuseness.

I was trying to point out that the user of liveaboard.com acknowledged that their ratings system was whack and how he dealt with it.

 

[GR8FUL]

Perhaps SB needs a new section "LOB Reviews" and each vessel has a Poll (separate thread) with the following rules:
•votes are publicly visible
•only members with #posts > ?50 can vote so as to stop vote bots and the like
•any vote below ?6/10 needs to have a brief explanation/detail else the vote is deleted.

I'd like to cast my vote in favor of Jay's suggestion above.

Additionally (or at least in the meantime) subscribing to Undercurrent, Consumer Reporting for Serious Divers Since 1975 would seem like a prudent decision. I'm aware that at least one person has stated that the owner's of undercurrent receive some kind of compensation from dive operators they review; I have no personal knowledge that this is true, but regardless I've read a fair amount of negative (and seemingly unedited) user reviews on the undercurrent website. Clearly it would appear that user reviews on liveaboard.com are suspect AT BEST, but the user reviews on undercurrent magazine seem trustworthy.

 

[The Chairman]

I'm aware that at least one person has stated that the owner's of undercurrent receive some kind of compensation from dive operators they review; I have no personal knowledge that this is true,

No. This is not true. I don't subscribe to them for various reasons, but they try to be just as fair as we are. However, we have more reporters, so you have more input

Chilly, why do you keep trying to divert this thread

There is no benefit to anyone when a "dogpile" occurs on any person and/or business. It's a matter of fairness for those who are being impacted by what's being said that we don't let these discussions turn into a "ScubaBoard Inquisition". Trying to silence others who disagree with the majority is indeed indicative of a dogpile. Like any user, Chilly is allowed to have an opinion different from yours. Please afford everyone the courtesy of being able to express their opinions without having their motives impugned. If you feel a comment is problematic, please use the report button. Mods are harder on their own than any of you probably realize, but we try to be fair.

 

[Jay]

Chilly, do you agree that LiveAboard needs to fix their Review/Ratings system? And if you do, perhaps you could help with suggestions with what LiveAboard might do? (obviously just a suggestion to shape the future of this thread).

There is no benefit to anyone when a "dogpile" occurs on any person and/or business. It's a matter of fairness for those who are being impacted by what's being said that we don't let these discussions turn into a "ScubaBoard Inquisition". Trying to silence others who disagree with the majority is indeed indicative of a dogpile. Like any user, Chilly is allowed to have an opinion different from yours. Please afford everyone the courtesy of being able to express their opinions without having their motives impugned. If you feel a comment is problematic, please use the report button. Mods are harder on their own than any of you probably realize, but we try to be fair.

I don't think anyone's said anything that would warrant the Report button. It's just a conversation

When something quite outrageous occurs, such as a contrived Ratings and Review system it's not too unreasonable to expect multiple people to be angered by it and others less so, and a discussion to ensue. For sure, excessive comments saying the same/similar thing will serve no purpose, and as you say form a 'dog pile'. But this case IMO is different, there's no 'dogpile'; there's a discussion about the How (members have gone about asking the 'right/wrong' way), some discussion about the front-end LiveAboard staff being in a tough spot, and some thoughts on the detail of improving their Rating & Review system. That all seems fair and not 'dogpiling' right?

I have the same question which I hope you'll also entertain, do you agree that LiveAboard needs to fix their Review/Ratings system?

I agree with you and apologise to@chillyinCanada when asked "Chilly, why do you keep trying to divert this thread" as it could be read that I was questioning motives. What I should have asked, what I wanted to ask was 'please don't dodge my question, we've asked one question to each other and I've answered yours so please answer mine'.

My next post is an attempt to move the conversation forward (more ideas on how to improve the Rating and Review system), but if you both could let me know if you agree or disagree with my question as it would certainly add weight when @Liveaboard catch up with this thread. Thanks.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I am impartial as to their review system.. i was not impartial to the unnecessary dogpiling that was going on. Nor did I care for the way, some of you were ramping up. It felt overly aggressive and repetitive. That was my perception and I believed that no good could come from that and it would appear that I was right, inasmuch as, Liveaboard.com has gone silent. So, what was achieved by that behaviour?

Of course, I would prefer to see honest reviews. It should be noted that bad reviews may not be valid, or if perchance, some what valid, could be askew because the customer got a head cold and didn't enjoy themselves, because they had a headcold, the food didn't taste good, because they felt miserable, the staff couldn't make them happy. So they get back home, suffering from a cold, a miserable flight from the sinus pressure, jetlag, and so on and so forth, and they sit down and write their scathing review. Perhaps that review doesn't meet the posting rules. Perhaps it's just too vituperative. Or whatever. If liveaboard.com puts it up, what happens when the boat gets hold of them and says, "take that down!"?

It's a balancing act. Yes, I will agree that it appears that liveaboard.com is skewing the reviews to the positive. Not so good.

 

[Flatline]

I want to thank all of you for a spirited and beneficial thread. For my part, I was looking at liveaboard and other sites as options. Given the grave nature of review manipulation, I will not use any site that engages in this type of trust and perception abuse. While it maybe a bit sad that the liveaboard representative chose to disengage and may have faced a no win situation given the duplicity of the employer, it sheds a stark light on the indefensible. The discourse is an invaluable service to the dive community and pubic. In my opinion.

 

[The Chairman]

But this case IMO is different, there's no 'dogpile

I never said there was a dogpile. Like any rescue, the best moderation is unseen and preempts any dogpiling. It's not uncommon for any mod to send a PM to a poster who might be seen as becoming overly engrossed with a particular POV. Mods don't generally see that as moderation, since nothing was deleted, but as a gentle nudge to keep users playing nice. It's a fine line that's easily crossed. In any event, ScubaBoard is best when we're all being respectful of others and their opinions.

I have the same question which I hope you'll also entertain, do you agree that LiveAboard needs to fix their Review/Ratings system?

I have no idea. I don't know what you seem to see as being "broke" in their system. I am biased and use SB exclusively and don't feel it's appropriate for me to comment on another site. Someone reported Chilly and I came to see what was happening with that. She's a great Mod, and I still feel that way after checking it out. Ergo, I felt I needed to make a public statement about it and moved on. If we need further discussions about this, please start a thread in Site Support. Thanks.

However, and I say this for every business on ScubaBoard: Own your mistakes. Admit them, figure out how to make it right and post that here as well. Gear will fail. People will make mistakes. We see that as a given, but we do want to know how you're going to fix things once they go badly.

 

[Alberto Ruiz-Larrea]

Hello everyone,

Sorry went silent coz I went diving and I am terrible about everything else when I am diving. But now thats done I will follow up on this again.

I am still trying to post my review, since I think it is important. Almost half the people on my boat used Liveaboard.com to book their trip and everyone had many dives, so its not like they were new to the scene, yet they did not know to the extent that Liveaboard will go to hide reviews. I am trying to keep this thread alive and I am glad that it has gained this much attention because then when someone does a google search this will come up and show them that they cannot be trusted (again I would like to re-iterate that this is just with the review process, since I had acceptable service with everything else).

I have not heard back from them privately even though they keep on claiming that they are doing everything in their power. I am not asking for a crazy favor, I am literally just asking that my review be posted with a 1 star rating. It has taken many emails and dozens of posts here, and they cannot manage to do this. Hence if you are reading this, be very skeptical about trusting Liveaboard.com.

 

[admikar]

Of course, I would prefer to see honest reviews. It should be noted that bad reviews may not be valid, or if perchance, some what valid, could be askew because the customer got a head cold and didn't enjoy themselves, because they had a headcold, the food didn't taste good, because they felt miserable, the staff couldn't make them happy. So they get back home, suffering from a cold, a miserable flight from the sinus pressure, jetlag, and so on and so forth, and they sit down and write their scathing review. Perhaps that review doesn't meet the posting rules. Perhaps it's just too vituperative. Or whatever. If liveaboard.com puts it up, what happens when the boat gets hold of them and says, "take that down!"?

IMO, boat should not have a leverage in those instances. I am OK with boat/business telling their side of story, but that's it.
If after reply I find customer's motive suspect, I will dig deeper to see if same complaints occurred before, either from customer's side on different businesses or on that business from different customers. Some customers are hard to please and some complaints are legit, but it is not good business practice to play judge, jury and executioner.

However, and I say this for every business on ScubaBoard: Own your mistakes. Admit them, figure out how to make it right and post that here as well. Gear will fail. People will make mistakes. We see that as a given, but we do want to know how you're going to fix things once they go badly.

^^^^ This.
If only liveaboard.com said: we made a mistake, we're sorry and we'll try to make it right, I bet most posters in this thread would commend them. You do as they did and this is the result you get.

 

[LiveaboardCom]

Hello everyone,

Sorry went silent coz I went diving and I am terrible about everything else when I am diving. But now thats done I will follow up on this again.

I am still trying to post my review, since I think it is important. Almost half the people on my boat used Liveaboard.com to book their trip and everyone had many dives, so its not like they were new to the scene, yet they did not know to the extent that Liveaboard will go to hide reviews. I am trying to keep this thread alive and I am glad that it has gained this much attention because then when someone does a google search this will come up and show them that they cannot be trusted (again I would like to re-iterate that this is just with the review process, since I had acceptable service with everything else).

I have not heard back from them privately even though they keep on claiming that they are doing everything in their power. I am not asking for a crazy favor, I am literally just asking that my review be posted with a 1 star rating. It has taken many emails and dozens of posts here, and they cannot manage to do this. Hence if you are reading this, be very skeptical about trusting Liveaboard.com.

Hello Alberto,

I'm following up as per my other private message just now. I am very sorry to hear you have not yet received confirmation your review is live.

I have been out of the office for a month and I am chasing this right now with the team that is posting your review. As soon as I have any news on progress I will be in touch.

Again, my apologies for this delay. I hope I can resolve this for you swiftly.

Kathryn