No knee skills for DM

[Storker]

If you can do the complete skill circuit to demonstration standard in neutral buoyancy, I'd say go for it. However, make sure it really is to demo quality. You won't get extra points for showing off if the actual skill fundamentals are lacking.

When I took my CMAS equivalent to DM (3*), the problem for most of us wasn't to demonstrate the skill to demo quality. That was pretty easy. The problem was to remember to breathe normally so we didn't lose our buoyancy control enough to start the first phase of corking.

Yes, everything was supposed to be demonstrated in horizontal trim, neutrally buoyant. With our butts towards the current so we had to backfin more or less continuously.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Fully neutral and in proper trim, can be awkward a in a shallow confined water. Our pool is only 8' deep. I will accept fin tips on the bottom but certainly not knees.

The only Knees I will allow is the stress test, afterwards I will encourage the DM's to perfect it neutral. I I were to make the stress test neutral then the student would probably be getting marked down for the other points.

However I expect / demand 4/5 for the demonstration of the skills, which what my focus is on rather than the candidate being fully neutral. During the rest of the course I can ensure my expectations of trim and buoyancy are met by the candidate

However the new IE requires some skills fully neutral (not seen the course yet) During IDC there really isn't time to teach the candidate neutral Buoyancy, so in reality this should be perfected during the DM course.

I suspect post IE /IDC launch, the DM course may get tweaked to bring it into line requiring some skills neutral

During IDC it was demanded that all skills were neutral by my CD, imagine my disappointment that during the skills demo section of IE all the candidates were put on their knees by the examiner.

 

[rsingler]

For the test, my recommendation is to follow the group, line up the way the Examiner tells you (neutral or kneeling), and do it better than the guy before you.

That's where we differ. I don't care how others do it. I care how I do it.

Yep. That's where we differ. Fail rates in my IDC class were ~25%. Some were deserved, but some not. The pressure on the class was very high, and the pace for my large exam was rapid. Some examinees became task saturated.

You can't teach if you don't pass, so my recommendation remains the same: pass the test. Good instructors are ahead of the organization anyway. PADI didn't teach us to teach neutral. We essentially forced the organization to adopt best practices.

The IE is not a test of your ability. It's a mental hurdle. Demonstrate to the standard. Then teach it better.
Remember, the Examiner thinks he/she knows it best. If you are the only neutral examinee, as far as they're concerned you're showing off and "you're not even an Instructor yet". It'd be human nature for them to look for an excuse to mark you down.

I'm not talking about what's best for your students. I'm talking about getting to join the club in the first place. I wasn't particularly impressed with my Examiner's skill in the water (he did one demo for us early in the test). But it's asking for trouble to be completely different than the herd.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Then teach it better.

Let me ask you this. If someone cannot pass the IE NB/T for whatever reason, what makes you think that person teaching NB/T suddenly when they can't pass their IE that way is a good thing? Sounds like a goat rodeo underwater to me.

What's the rush?

 

[rsingler]

Like I said, some fails were deserved; some not. I lived with my classmates during the IDC, even though I was already an experienced Divemaster. I knew which ones were screwoffs. Not every anxious young candidate should be failed. Task saturation at an in-water depth of four feet doesn't mean they'll be a bad instructor.
So if the Examiner lines you all up on your knees, I'm just saying, "Don't be a cowboy", even if you did your IDC neutral. You've got enough to worry about during those two days.

 

[mmerriman]

Alternatively, I'd ask your mentoring instructor what they want to see as they'll be the one grading you.
!

Your instructor should be demonstrating how every skill should be done before assessing you. there's no way a DM candidate can come in and be assessed for demo quality teaching skills without that.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Your instructor should be demonstrating how every skill should be done before assessing you. there's no way a DM candidate can come in and be assessed for demo quality teaching skills without that.

Yes, that's why I'm suggesting the OP speaks to their instructor first rather ask the internet which way the circuit should be done. If the instructor demo's it one way and the candidate performs it another, it won't necessarily do him / her any favours. However, asking beforehand if they could do it in neutral buoyancy may receive a positive response.

 

[giovyledzep]

Yes, that's why I'm suggesting the OP speaks to their instructor first rather ask the internet which way the circuit should be done. If the instructor demo's it one way and the candidate performs it another, it won't necessarily do him / her any favours. However, asking beforehand if they could do it in neutral buoyancy may receive a positive response.

Instructors don't have the authority to override or make up PADI standards. If something is not specified in the standards, the instructor has no right to say it MUST be done this or that way. If he does he should definitely be reported to PADI. He might suggest you do it a way or another, plus factoring in the human ego factor of "i know better, you're getting punished for not listening to me" it might be in your best interest to just follow his advice, but he shouldn't be able to compel you to do it a way that is not specified in the standards.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

Instructors don't have the authority to override or make up PADI standards. If something is not specified in the standards, the instructor has no right to say it MUST be done this or that way. If he does he should definitely be reported to PADI. He might suggest you do it a way or another, plus factoring in the human ego factor of "i know better, you're getting punished for not listening to me" it might be in your best interest to just follow his advice, but he shouldn't be able to compel you to do it a way that is not specified in the standards.

Nobody is suggesting the instructor would, should or could make up standards. I'm assuming you've been assigned a mentor and hopefully you've had an opportunity to discuss what your instructor expects of you and what you can expect from your instructor. I'm purely suggesting you have a chat. Remember, the skills circuit is only a small part of the program and you'll need to be able to establish trust to make the relationship work.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

I would think a good instructor would go beyond the most basic requirements of any certification. My Rescue cert also include the stress test on the bottom as well as the drop gear at 9 meters and retrieve from the surface. Calm, Control, and Confident. I feel like all these things made me more prepared for the crazy sh*t that can go awry under water. I am grateful for the extra measures my instructor went to to train me properly.