Indoor Scuba Waterpark

[Paradocs1111]

I think the irony is when you realize just how big the US is compared to Western Europe, and in the larger states just how dense the diving population isn't. Then compare liability and tort law in the US to most any European country and you begin to see that the fact this does not exist in the US as of yet is not all that ironic.

The reality is that it does exist in the US but is prohibitively expensive for it to be a casual experience; look at the cost to dive Epcot or in the tanks at any of the aquariums around the US.

In Belgium there is TODI which is a 10 meter deep pool (at its center, actually averages between 4-6 meters deep overall), and is filled with fish and artificial habitat. It is fresh water, but there is quite the variety of fish species and size. The only issue with diving there is that it is mind numbing. The rush is that you are doing something fairly exclusive, kind of like looking through the glass of the tank at the park visitors are disney, the reality is, if you have ever done a dive with lots of fish, it is a rather mundane experience and can be expensive (as in the case of places like Disney). TODI charges 35 Euros for 2 hours which starts and ends at the turnstyles as one enters/exits the changing rooms. One might think 2 hours is not that long but after about 15-20 minutes in the pool, one has seen everything and it just gets boring.

The major difference between diving inside and diving outside are the variables. Outside you have to contend with (depending on where you dive) variables such as visibility, awareness and control of depth, currents, waves, thermoclines, etc. You also have to be aware of the impact of these variables on your dive partner (if you are not diving solo). When diving indoors the physics of diving is all the same but none of the other variables really exist. There is no challenge to navigating across the big crystal clear pool. The hard bottom means there is not chance of sinking into the abyss. You say to yourself lets swim over "there" and check out that school of fish, only to realize that you have swam past that school of fish 10 times already.

Places like Nemo 33 and the dive tank in Italy are fairly sterile environments. The nice thing about them is that if you descend to the bottom you need to maintain awareness of your bottom time/no deco time as just because you are inside you cannot escape the physics/physiology of nitrogen loading. You also have to watch your ascent rate because just because you are inside you cannot escape reality of Boyle's Law.

If you look at Nemo 33 from a business model, they use the pool for teaching swimming, teaching diving, aquasizing, mom and baby classes, and other activities to make operating the place more cost effective. I have no idea what their overhead is or how profitable they are but they are currently able to sustain operations. They are located just on the outskirts of Bruxelles where there is very good public transportation to their location. With Bruxelles centrally located, Nemo 33 is at most 2 hours away from the southeast corner of the country with most other cities averaging an hour or less.

And for some strange reason there is a very high density of divers among the populations of Belgium and Netherlands despite that local diving is in lakes and quarries with limited visibility, or the North Sea where there is often cold water temps, limited visibility and can be strong currents, there is a surprising number of people who dive all year round. Nemo 33 and TODI are able to take advantage of this because on those cold miserable mornings when one is just unmotivated to venture out under the often gray cloud filled sky the warm and inviting environment of these indoor dive centers is a very attractive way to spend an hour or two of the day.

Going back to the differences between why this works here compared to the US, the fact that learning to swim is a compulsory part of public school curriculums (at least here in Belgium), a much larger percent of the population is exposed to water activities at a younger age than in the US.

There is also a major difference in the mentality towards personal responsibility, and there is far fewer tort lawsuits here than there in the US where the prevailing mentality is the one is not responsible for their own actions and/or stupidity or ignorance. I could not imagine the amount of liability insurance one would need to make something like this a go in the US, and of course that cost would be passed on to the customer.

When you look at the prevailing factors, and I am sure I am not accounting for some, it is not very ironic that these type of places exist here but not there.

-Z

Excellent discussion, thank you!

 

[Paradocs1111]

In Ohio we have some very large indoor water parks, year round, wave pools, water slides, lounge chairs, kiddie pools, food service, even hotel, and restaurants. I’m looking at a similar sized concept with a major change.The vision would be aimed specifically towards diving, snorkeling, aquatic / sea life , educational, kids programs, activities, various indoor diving experiences. We all spend thousands on dive trips, we go for 5-7 days, airfare, live aboard or hotel room. If we are lucky we get 1 trip a year. I want to make diving accessible to everyone that’s interested, in a premier in land dive space, for a reasonable ticket price. Aquariums are neat experiences, but not really meant for diving, they are meant for viewing. Giant acrylic tanks with artificial reefs cost considerably more than a cement lined artificial quarry. This has been the first dip in the conceptual water on this idea. Thanks again everyone, any other ideas or thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I'd like to dive both EPCOT and the Georgia Aquarium.

I have not done EPCOT, but the Georgia Aquarium dive was a really cool experience; pretty pricey though.

 

[Diver below 83]

I think the irony is when you realize just how big the US is compared to Western Europe, and in the larger states just how dense the diving population isn't. Then compare liability and tort law in the US to most any European country and you begin to see that the fact this does not exist in the US as of yet is not all that ironic.

The reality is that it does exist in the US but is prohibitively expensive for it to be a casual experience; look at the cost to dive Epcot or in the tanks at any of the aquariums around the US.

In Belgium there is TODI which is a 10 meter deep pool (at its center, actually averages between 4-6 meters deep overall), and is filled with fish and artificial habitat. It is fresh water, but there is quite the variety of fish species and size. The only issue with diving there is that it is mind numbing. The rush is that you are doing something fairly exclusive, kind of like looking through the glass of the tank at the park visitors are disney, the reality is, if you have ever done a dive with lots of fish, it is a rather mundane experience and can be expensive (as in the case of places like Disney). TODI charges 35 Euros for 2 hours which starts and ends at the turnstyles as one enters/exits the changing rooms. One might think 2 hours is not that long but after about 15-20 minutes in the pool, one has seen everything and it just gets boring.

The major difference between diving inside and diving outside are the variables. Outside you have to contend with (depending on where you dive) variables such as visibility, awareness and control of depth, currents, waves, thermoclines, etc. You also have to be aware of the impact of these variables on your dive partner (if you are not diving solo). When diving indoors the physics of diving is all the same but none of the other variables really exist. There is no challenge to navigating across the big crystal clear pool. The hard bottom means there is not chance of sinking into the abyss. You say to yourself lets swim over "there" and check out that school of fish, only to realize that you have swam past that school of fish 10 times already.

Places like Nemo 33 and the dive tank in Italy are fairly sterile environments. The nice thing about them is that if you descend to the bottom you need to maintain awareness of your bottom time/no deco time as just because you are inside you cannot escape the physics/physiology of nitrogen loading. You also have to watch your ascent rate because just because you are inside you cannot escape reality of Boyle's Law.

If you look at Nemo 33 from a business model, they use the pool for teaching swimming, teaching diving, aquasizing, mom and baby classes, and other activities to make operating the place more cost effective. I have no idea what their overhead is or how profitable they are but they are currently able to sustain operations. They are located just on the outskirts of Bruxelles where there is very good public transportation to their location. With Bruxelles centrally located, Nemo 33 is at most 2 hours away from the southeast corner of the country with most other cities averaging an hour or less.

And for some strange reason there is a very high density of divers among the populations of Belgium and Netherlands despite that local diving is in lakes and quarries with limited visibility, or the North Sea where there is often cold water temps, limited visibility and can be strong currents, there is a surprising number of people who dive all year round. Nemo 33 and TODI are able to take advantage of this because on those cold miserable mornings when one is just unmotivated to venture out under the often gray cloud filled sky the warm and inviting environment of these indoor dive centers is a very attractive way to spend an hour or two of the day.

Going back to the differences between why this works here compared to the US, the fact that learning to swim is a compulsory part of public school curriculums (at least here in Belgium), a much larger percent of the population is exposed to water activities at a younger age than in the US.

There is also a major difference in the mentality towards personal responsibility, and there is far fewer tort lawsuits here than there in the US where the prevailing mentality is the one is not responsible for their own actions and/or stupidity or ignorance. I could not imagine the amount of liability insurance one would need to make something like this a go in the US, and of course that cost would be passed on to the customer.

When you look at the prevailing factors, and I am sure I am not accounting for some, it is not very ironic that these type of places exist here but not there.

-Z

diving at Epcot is only $179 with gear included. That’s hardly expensive or cost prohibitive. That’s the average price for most dives at vacation resorts or cruise dives.

 

[wgw04024]

If there wasn't any sea life, I don't see the attraction. It would be cool for cave/cavern setups I would think. But that would cut out a large part of the diving community.

 

[Zef]

diving at Epcot is only $179 with gear included. That’s hardly expensive or cost prohibitive. That’s the average price for most dives at vacation resorts or cruise dives.

We come from different worlds given you don't think $179 for a 1 hour or less dive experience is not expensive. I can fly to Egypt, stay at a resort hotel with food and drink included, and dive for a week (2 dives/day) all for less less than 600 euros...the only extra expenses are parking at/near the airport on this end, park fees for some of the dive sites, and tips for the guide/boat crew.

But if diving in a disney aquarium or any aquarium for that matter is what you find fun and interesting that is A-OK. I like blowing bubbles at the bottom of deep, dark, cold quarries, while watching sturgeon fade in and out of the silty abyss like little fresh water sharks my thing is not everyone's cup of tea.

-Z

 

[wgw04024]

We come from different worlds given you don't think $179 for a 1 hour or less dive experience is not expensive. I can fly to Egypt, stay at a resort hotel with food and drink included, and dive for a week (2 dives/day) all for less less than 600 euros...the only extra expenses are parking at/near the airport on this end, park fees for some of the dive sites, and tips for the guide/boat crew.

But if diving in a disney aquarium or any aquarium for that matter is what you find fun and interesting that is A-OK. I like blowing bubbles at the bottom of deep, dark, cold quarries, while watching sturgeon fade in and out of the silty abyss like little fresh water sharks my thing is not everyone's cup of tea.

-Z

Can you elaborate on the specifics of this resort for that price?

 

[Eyegore]

The SCUBA equivalent to a rock climbing/bouldering gym.

Cool idea!

 

[KathyV]

The SCUBA equivalent to a rock climbing/bouldering gym.

Cool idea!

It might also be a nice way to check out your equipment and refresh your skills before heading off to a remote spot for a dive vacation; and dive ops might contract with the water park to do pool sessions and avoid the expense of maintaining an onsite pool.

 

[Zef]

Can you elaborate on the specifics of this resort for that price?

Here is the club announcement from this past November's trip:

"It's time once again to organize another trip to the Red Sea and Egypt. People who have done it love it and requested it again and again. We will be staying at the Grand Resort in Hurghada. It is a nice 5 star hotel. Great rooms and good food. Great place for people who want to take the whole family.

We will be flying from Germany. We can carpool as we usually do. I checked for parking at the airport and it looks like it is about 40 Euros for the week. Won't be too much for people to chip in for fuel and parking. If we have enough people, we can try to organize a bus as we have done in the past.

For the hotel, it is All Inclusive. All meals and drinks are included. You can check on the hotel website to see what else is included in the hotel.

http://www.redseahotels.com/index.php?id=94

For the diving, it is a 10 dive/ 5 day boat dive package. We will start our first dives on Sunday and do 2 dives a day through Thursday. We will bring our own equipment except tank and weights. That will be supplied by them. If you do not wish to bring your own equipment, you can rent from them also.

Everyone is going to be really happy. I should be able to get the flight, hotel and diving for around 600 Euros P/P in a standard double room. That's about the same as last year. For people who want to bring family members that don't dive, it will be about 450 Euros for the flight and all inclusive hotel. There are also family rooms and single rooms available at different prices. Just let me know if you want one of these. If you want a Deluxe room, which just means the room faces the pool, it costs 35 Euros p/p extra. (70 Euros extra for a double room). Please specify if you want one of these rooms.

Not included- Egyptian Entrance VISA, $25 US.
Also it is customary to leave a tip for the crew upon departure on the last day. They do a lot of work for us.

We can also get NITROX on the boat.

On the Friday, while we are off gassing, we can see about arranging a trip to the Valley of the Kings, Luxor and Karnak to see some Egyptian temples. It is a real nice trip for those who have never seen them.

Please reply if you are seriously interested in going. I have only 75 seats reserved at this price for now. I will start booking as soon as I get names. Last year we had 100 people. Please send me your names as they appear in your passports and room preferences."

The actual cost of the flight, hotel, and diving was less than 600 euros. Unfortunately my wife and I had other commitments and did not go this year.

-Z