No knee skills for DM

[The Chairman]

How long did that take?

Most people cite it takes at least a hundred dives to dial in your buoyancy. I disagree and my students have it dialed in before they leave the pool. There's a guy here this week that's been a diver for 7 years and he's still not happy with his buoyancy. I talked him through a few strategies last night at dinner and he was amazed at how easy and effective they were. I've never had a student whine after the class about not being allowed to kneel. I've never heard anyone complain that a diver was ever too horizontal or neutral either. By many accounts, it's the hardest to achieve, so I introduce it right after I teach mask clearing in the Kiddie Pool. Every skill is built on the base of being neutral, and every description of every skill begins with "Establish neutral buoyancy". I try to avoid talking on the surface and instead prefer to demonstrate below, but I do bring it up on any debrief. By the time we work to the final test in the pool, they've got neutral buoyancy down. BTW, when a student is in control and relaxed, I find that they learn skills at an incredible rate. When they're fighting the awkwardness of kneeling on the bottom, they are often distracted by that and learning takes longer.

 

[TMHeimer]

A

Most people cite it takes at least a hundred dives to dial in your buoyancy. I disagree and my students have it dialed in before they leave the pool. There's a guy here this week that's been a diver for 7 years and he's still not happy with his buoyancy. I talked him through a few strategies last night at dinner and he was amazed at how easy and effective they were. I've never had a student whine after the class about not being allowed to kneel. I've never heard anyone complain that a diver was ever too horizontal or neutral either. By many accounts, it's the hardest to achieve, so I introduce it right after I teach mask clearing in the Kiddie Pool. Every skill is built on the base of being neutral, and every description of every skill begins with "Establish neutral buoyancy". I try to avoid talking on the surface and instead prefer to demonstrate below, but I do bring it up on any debrief. By the time we work to the final test in the pool, they've got neutral buoyancy down. BTW, when a student is in control and relaxed, I find that they learn skills at an incredible rate. When they're fighting the awkwardness of kneeling on the bottom, they are often distracted by that and learning takes longer.

Agree on all points. 100 dives to dial in buoyancy does seem ridiculous. I vaguely recall being quite satisfied after just a few dives (5? 10?). At one point very early on I stopped and hovered to look at something, then realized I was hovering motionless. I do have an advantage in that the vast majority of my shore dives are very shallow, so lots of practice over years working the inflator.
I can see how someone could be unsatisfied after 7 years, if you take it to an extreme. Hey once in a blue moon I add or release a bit too much air even now--we're not computers. I've also been driving since 1971 and once in a while do something less than perfect there....

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

how did the knee thing impede your progress? I would assume you had to do a lot of work to get your buoyancy skills where they would have been had you been taught neutrally? How long did that take?

It took a lot of effort to break my bad habits over time. Part of the problem was, I didn't know how bad I was. Fundies accelerated things. I wish I had started using video for visual feedback. Not sure how long it was where I started to teach NB/T (from information on social media, first here, and then from people I met on FB) and when I took fundies. Fundies was a real eye opener as to how to teach and dive better.

Had I had a course like fundies, I'd probably be a more advanced technical diver. I would have saved a lot of money from courses that didn't benefit me much. I've said before, my biggest mistake was taking fundies earlier. I'm glad I didn't wait after thousands of dives, as there are people I know with such dive counts who couldn't even earn a rec pass as their habits were so ingrained.

 

[The Chairman]

Part of the problem was, I didn't know how bad I was.

That was probably %85 of the problem. You can't/won't fix a problem you don't know you have.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

That was probably %85 of the problem. You can't/won't fix a problem you don't know you have.

"85% of the statistics on the Internet are made up." - Abraham Lincoln. If you can't trust Honest Abe, who can you trust?

 

[The Chairman]

If you can't trust Honest Abe, who can you trust?

Only me. I would never steer you wrong.

 

[undrwater]

I'm curious if the habit of training while kneeling began before BCD's were commonly used.

 

[TMHeimer]

Interesting quote from June 2015 article in Dive Training mag. by Greg Laslo in "Dive Instructor Tips" section.
I'm not saying I agree, just think it's interesting I came across this after participating in this thread.

....."For example, a student new to scuba is perfectly content kneeling in the pool while practicing airway control, but if he wants to move he'll have to learn buoyancy control and efficient kicking. But until he masters the first step, he can't attempt the latter."

I do find it interesting however that someone giving advice with presumably a well-known reputation has this view as late as 2015.
Notice in the 2nd sentence he says "can't attempt the latter".

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I ran across this just now. Wanted to share. No further commentary needed (oh God, I hope no commentary is needed).

 

[TMHeimer]

I ran across this just now. Wanted to share. No further commentary needed (oh God, I hope no commentary is needed).

Sorry--commentary (of course!)
Yes, good buoyancy can be taught easily to (some?) novices. A matter of working the LPI well. Not rocket science. I suppose all or some DSD students could do skills NB if asked to. I would guess some could not, if they weren't as comfortable in water beforehand as these DSDs appear to be.

Irrelevant side note: I don't think the instructor was at all times close enough to grab each student should any one of them have bolted. That's the old "DSD ratio standards" thing.