VIP Inspectors: Identifiable vs Identified

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The repair dept guy at the shop said he’s very flexible schedule wise, but I’m waiting to see if that actually includes weeknights.
 
I have heard of some individuals that have their own stickers printed. It says something like "Inspected to CGA and PSI/PCI Standards" but they are not certified by them. How do they know they did them to the standards? They bought the book and tools. The number on it is one they made up and the shop is their garage with an email address instead of a phone number.
It's mainly for travel to out of state locations that want a shop name on it. The fillers think that this relieves them of liability even though no law requires a visual other than at the time of hydro in the US.
It's an industry standard. Even then it's more of a guideline because a shop could fill without a current one and unless there was an accident, no one would care and there would be no legal consequences if they filled a tank out of vis.
There is also some misconception about when the sticker expires depending on where you go. I've seen a shop deny fills on the 5th for a June sticker. They said the vis was due June 1st so it was out. Another shop knew it was good til the end of the month punched. Depends on the fill person working.

I like this idea. I was thinking along the same and you posted it.

How does anyone know that the "other" guy actually did the VIP? What if that guy just slaps a sticker on. You don't really know, so technically there's no difference between "stickers", unless you yourself VIP and sticker the thing.

Edit: for clarification, I mean what's the difference between say @Marie13 doing it or another shop?
 
I like this idea. I was thinking along the same and you posted it.

How does anyone know that the "other" guy actually did the VIP? What if that guy just slaps a sticker on. You don't really know, so technically there's no difference between "stickers", unless you yourself VIP and sticker the thing.

Edit: for clarification, I mean what's the difference between say @Marie13 doing it or another shop?
You never know and yes bad shops sometimes slap a sticker on. Do shops do this more or less than independent inspectors? Who knows, for sure if someone is doing this and called out on it "hey there's rust in this tank!" they will claim that it occurred after their inspection - and there's almost no way to refute that.
 
How does anyone know that the "other" guy actually did the VIP? What if that guy just slaps a sticker on. You don't really know, so technically there's no difference between "stickers", unless you yourself VIP and sticker the thing.
That got me to thinking about why I wanted the VIP cert in the first place. Thx.

Lowviz is getting the rest of my VIP stickers. Pitched the rest of my tools into the trash. At least I had very little money in them.
Maybe another way to think about your cert:

Part of the reason I wanted that cert was so that I could look into a tank if I suspected a bad fill or any other issue. We were taught to treat tanks as someone else's property. We are not allowed to remove stickering unless it is an old one that you put on.

So why not keep your stuff and inspect/sticker any of your tanks that you open for any reason you wish? You can take them back to the shop for fills with the shop's current sticker next to yours.

God help them if they remove yours or push back...
 
I don't understand why this is so difficult for the record I'm neither trained nor certified to vis cylinders, but I used to be certified by the FAA, CAA, DoD and MoD to NDT inspect aircraft.

Surely if you have proof of certification from a recognised agency that should be enough? Shops accept cert cards for fills or to rent a DS

Questioning and inspectors integrity works both ways. If a shop is to suggest you don't inspect as well as them, they should accept that you can make the same accusation.

If you have a proof of a valid certification form a recognised agency it should be a no brainier

As inspections go, Vis inspection is pretty low tech and subjective and not really rocket science (not intending to discredit those who hold a cert and the training they get)

Clearly some people are on a power trip
 
I understand DRIS' position. Kudos to Mike for not coming in and blasting. I understand Marie's position. Kudos to her for stating her position thoughtfully and clearly. As Marie has said, their fill station, their rules. As a long time liability target and cylinder owner/inspector, I would like to add a little perspective.

No visual will save a cylinder from exploding. It rarely works that corrosion would eat through a cylinder that quickly, and I've seen some terribly pitted and condemned cylinders. But people are people, and they will blame the dive shop for a lot of things, so the shop wants to be relatively assured that the cylinder that they are filling is in somewhat decent shape, without products of corrosion in their cylinder. They are putting a good amount of a hazardous material in a small container, they want to be assured that the container can hold it. They also want to be assured that the person receiving the fill doesn't already have something in the cylinder that will hurt them. I have found amazing things in cylinders. When I took over cylinder inspection for a liveaboard dive boat company and did all of the VIPs the first year, I found spaghetti noodles, a dead cockroach, a ton of rust and/or aluminum oxide, slime, goo and other stuff that maybe we shouldn't breathe.

DRIS provides a pathway for cylinder owners to get their inspected cylinders approved for filling at THEIR fill station. Good for them. the pathway provided is not convenient for Marie to use, sad for her. But she has another option, getting them filled at her closer LDS. Yay for her.

At the end of the day (and story), Mike wants his customers to come back as healthy as they left last time. That's not a bad philosophy of liability. That doesn't work in everyone's favor always, and not in Marie's case this time, but as the song says, you can't please everyone all the time, but I think DRIS pleases most folks most of the time, including Marie.
 
Some of the irony here is that, if this is the shop I believe it to be, if you purchase new tanks from them through their on-line business, they ship the tank with their vip sticker loose in the box... Now, one may ask, did they vip the tank?

Also, if it is them, and IIRC, the sticker limited information meting their own requirements...

o_O
 
The lesson here is that it’s not the best use of of time and money to get certified to inspect your own tanks.

Unless you have your own compressor, you’re still dealing with a dive shop for fills, so what’s the point?

Any cost savings is offset by the time and expense of taking the class and buying stickers.

It’s not the dive shop practices I would be questioning.
 
I understand the policy, and I understand the reasoning behind DRIS decision. I don't think it's common sense though. I think there should at least be a "path" that people can take to VIP their own tanks with the end result being they can do it at home on their leisure. Maybe the 1st one is supervised / overseen and then you can VIP at home after that?

The common sense says why would someone get certified, open their tank look inside, see moisture / contaminants, then screw the valve back on and slap a sticker? Or better yet, why would they just slap a sticker on and take it to get filled. I'm not rich, my tanks weren't cheap. I'd like to keep them in pristine shape for as long as I can, and I surely don't want to breath rust and contaminants just because I was lazy.

I have found amazing things in cylinders. When I took over cylinder inspection for a liveaboard dive boat company and did all of the VIPs the first year, I found spaghetti noodles, a dead cockroach, a ton of rust and/or aluminum oxide, slime, goo and other stuff that maybe we shouldn't breathe.

To the post above about spaghetti noodles and cockroaches (thanks, now I'll think I'm breathing cockroaches from every rented tank on vacation:)), they were in there when the last person sealed the valve. A VIP didn't work in the 1st place. Whose to say that couldn't happen @ DRIS, it had to happen from somewhere? You can't tell me that the guy at the shop doing the VIP on Friday night is as attentive when his gf is sexting him in the back and he's about to get off?....of work I mean?
 
I'm not rich, my tanks weren't cheap. I'd like to keep them in pristine shape for as long as I can, and I surely don't want to breath rust and contaminants just because I was lazy.
My wife repairs regulators in a scuba shop. We can all agree that regulators aren't cheap, and even cost more than cylinders. Many divers own their own regulators, probably more than own their own cylinders.

You would be shocked at the condition most regulators come in for service in. I mean that. Shocked and most.

It is remarkable the nights she comes home and says "I worked on a regulator that was in pretty good shape". She services regulators for the local community college, her dive shop, another dive shop in town, the scientific divers for a number of organizations, and whomever wanders in off the street, locals and vacationers alike. A large percentage must be frozen to disassemble. Most everything goes into the acid bath. Everything goes into the ultrasonic, just as a precaution.

Most divers are ineffective gear rinsers. They don't keep their regulators in pristine condition, or hardly in working condition. There is no reason to assume that the majority of divers would keep their cylinders any better.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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