VIP Inspectors: Identifiable vs Identified

[Lorenzoid]

IMHO, they would be perfectly justified to call the diver on this if they were that hard-ass of a shop. Their compressor, their rules.

@abnfrog teaches an exhaustive and comprehensive 'hands-on' VIP Inspector course. He knows that his card should be good anywhere, so do I. But how would any shop know that every other instructor does the same? How many times have we heard on this board "It is the instructor not the agency"?

Edit: Life is full of compromises, this is the only reasonable way to resolve this issue (that I can see).

And, continuing with the hypothetical, if the "instructor not the agency" is what a shop finds compelling, then why does a shop honor just about any agency's card in filling the cardholder's tank? Is it because, in the case of a VIP card, they figure that a poorly trained cardholder puts the shop's fill person at risk, but in the case of a c-card for diving, they figure that a poorly trained cardholder doesn't put the shop's people at risk? I think that is exactly it. Once again, we have an example of how little weight holding a dive agency's card carries in the real world.

 

[lowviz]

Once again, we have an example of how little weight holding a dive agency's card carries in the real world.

Exactly. And I don't want to change the current situation because the obvious threat is governmental control.

We cope.

 

[rjack321]

And, continuing with the hypothetical, if the "instructor not the agency" is what a shop finds compelling, then why does a shop honor just about any agency's card in filling the cardholder's tank? Is it because, in the case of a VIP card, they figure that a poorly trained cardholder puts the shop's fill person at risk, but in the case of a c-card for diving, they figure that a poorly trained cardholder doesn't put the shop's people at risk? I think that is exactly it. Once again, we have an example of how little weight holding a dive agency's card carries in the real world.

Well back when (annual) VIPs were created by the scuba industry they weren't treated as an affidavit of safety. They were pretty much just done to look for gross corrosion or (gasp) liquid water sloshing around. Because way back when, SPGs didn't even exist and divers ran their lp72s to nothing, pulled the J valve and surfaced with basically nothing. Plus compressor filtration was a joke. So duh water ended up in tanks. VIPs were an industry standard to mitigate these issues - not some sort of liability covering statement of cylinder safety. Fun fact Al80s were initially advertised as "corrosion" free even when water got inside - that was literally a marketing push compared to steel 72s.

Maybe DRIS should just chill out a bit here and stop making arbitrary hoops and rules for some inspectors and not for others? (Although if they want to ban 6351 tanks I would agree on that point.)

 

[rhwestfall]

we can go down a whole bunch of rabbit holes here with this scenario....

So, since this LDS is a charter operation, a poorly trained (by others) diver puts the boat/crew/other divers at risk, so they should refuse service because they didn't certify the diver.

They shouldn't allow the diver in advanced classed because he puts the other students, DM, instructor at risk because they didn't certify them...

What a mess!

 

[rhwestfall]

Glad I own a compressor, and glad the shops here that I have access to aren't behaving this way when I need fills from them...

 

[rhwestfall]

I'm waiting for New York to not recognize a driver's license from Ohio....

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Question (I know it was posted in here somewhere?), will they fill a tank that has been VIP'd through another shop? If so, I don't see a lick of difference between who does the VIP outside of their shop.... @Marie13, Joe Schmoe at the other dive shop who's working under his boss's certification, or Santa Clause.

That's not meant to be anything against @abnfrog class, I've heard nothing but great things about it...

 

[Jeremy Williams]

I see it as a question of reciprocity. Shops want other shops to honor their VIPs and so they honor other shop VIPs in kind. Nobody wants unnecessary friction with routine tasks. Just like the PADI shop/boat honors the c-card from SDI and vice versa. This system works because 99% of the time there is no need to question the source. For the ones that need to be questioned then the shop understands that they have to make some reasonable justification to their customer if they want to do business in the future.

Individuals participating in the VIP system are being viewed with distrust because there is no reciprocity. They are trying to change their role from customer to peer. It has nothing to do with the quality of the training or TDI vs PSI.

In the end you vote with your voice and your wallet.

 

[rjack321]

Question (I know it was posted in here somewhere?), will they fill a tank that has been VIP'd through another shop? If so, I don't see a lick of difference between who does the VIP outside of their shop.... @Marie13, Joe Schmoe at the other dive shop who's working under his boss's certification, or Santa Clause.

MANY shop have made all sorts of histrionic arguments why individuals can't VIP their own tanks. Things I have personally heard:
1) You don't have liability insurance (and you know a shop carries enough coverage how? How many explosions have you ever sued anyone about?)
2) If there's a bad fill we don't know who to contact (I have no idea how this is remotely related)
3) You can't possibly have the proper tools (defined by who? I don't own any cylinders needing an eddy current)
4) There's no address on your sticker so we can't.... (voice trails off)
5) It takes years of experience to understand the nuances (maybe but who defines that?)

I'm sure there's more I've forgotten. These are sometimes the same shops marking that they did an eddy current on a steel tank (facepalm). Or who actually own a hydrostation but I had to tell them what the REE on a lp faber meant vis vie a plus rating. Or were concerned about a bad fill in a bottle marked "argon do not breathe".

 

[Marie13]

I’m still trying to figure out why multiple people felt the need to call SDI/TDI HQ over this. It’s not me trying to make “nicey nice” either. They’re not singling those of us with a SDI/TDI VIP cert. it applies to all independently inspected tanks.

It’s not like an instructor was blatantly disregarding standards and putting students in danger.