VIP Inspectors: Identifiable vs Identified

[tmassey]

Yes, if you come in with a Generic VIP sticker, with no Instructor or Shop name or Certification number on it, we do ask for the paperwork to show it was completed.

Two things:

One, your website says that if the stickers are generic you either need to be the inspector *or* you need additional paperwork. Her complaint is she is the inspector, so why does she need additional paperwork? If you simply change that “or” to an “and”, there would be no argument. Of course, then the entire first half of the sentence is irrelevant: it doesn’t matter if you’re the inspector, you’re still gonna need some sort of paperwork.

Two, what exactly is “paperwork“? There’s nothing like an official form that needs to be completed. And if someone is going to fake a viz. by simply slapping a sticker on there, aren’t they just going to fake some “paperwork“? If someone brings in tanks with a generic sticker, and shows you their TDI inspector card, is that sufficient paperwork? That’s probably what would make @Marie13 happy as well. Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.

Personally, I think every sticker should have some identification of who did the inspection. And to me, the name of a dive shop isn’t good enough. I have generic CTS stickers, but they have a spot for me to put my inspection number. Which is exactly what I do.

But in the end, I live a couple of states away from dive right in scuba, and don’t plan on getting any fills there in the immediate future… So Mike, you do what you have to do!

 

[Marie13]

Why does it need to be changed? If you are the inspector, I don't need to see your paperwork, just your card. We did your class, we know you have it. I'm not sure why I would need to change something that you misunderstood. The policy is right there, you circled it, that's our policy. Nothing changed, it's in print.....what's so hard about it?

Website says VIP stickers do not need to show inspector information “if you are the inspector.”

 

[markmud]

Yes, if you come in with a Generic VIP sticker, with no Instructor or Shop name or Certification number on it, we do ask for the paperwork to show it was completed. What is wrong with that?

Hi Mike,

My Dad taught me when I was a kid, if you are not proud of your work, don't sign it. Otherwise, sign it. He then finished with: If you don't sign it, it is worthless to the rest of world. When I read your quoted sentence above I heard my Dad's voice reading your words. Your policy is completely reasonable.

We've even done FREE Vips when people were in a jam,and couldn't provide it. It's more about education, and safety vs. a hardline stance and its' worked very well! Not a single person has ever been turned away, and that was told to Marie13.

Sounds like good customer service to me.

We even offer those that have their VIP rating, to come in and use our tools and have our guys check when done if they feel more comfortable. They can even get new o-rings, a sticker, and a fill for only $5. All because we are trying to help them if it's something they only do once a year so they are comfortable and don't skip steps. Again, education.

If a local LDS offered me this deal, I would go get my TDI/SDI VIP cert as soon as I could find an instructor to teach the course.

If there is a name, or identifying person,shop, or cert #, then it's all good and nothing is needed. It's just the generic stickers that we ask for proof it was completed, to keep our staff safe.

To iterate, if a person won't sign the sticker and put their cert number on it, it is worthless to everyone. Asking a customer for bona fides is not bad customer service.

Thanks Mike for defending yourself and your associates,

cheers,
Mark Mudgett

 

[tmassey]

Why does it need to be changed? If you are the inspector, I don't need to see your paperwork, just your card.

If someone brings in tanks with a generic sticker, and shows you there TDI inspector card, Is that sufficient paperwork? That’s probably what would make @Marie13 happy as well.

Hey, great minds think alike! Sounds like an extremely logical requirement to me.

I wonder if there was a disconnect somewhere, and someone at the shop told @Marie13 she couldn’t have a fill because they only remembered or understood part of the policy. Boy, I think we have all seen things like that happen before.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Two things:

One, your website says that if the stickers are generic you either need to be the inspector *or* you need additional paperwork. Her complaint is she is the inspector, so why does she need additional paperwork? If you simply change that “or” to an “and”, there would be no argument. Of course, then the entire first half of the sentence is irrelevant: it doesn’t matter if you’re the inspector, you’re still gonna need some sort of paperwork.

Two, what exactly is “paperwork“? There’s nothing like an official form that needs to be completed. And if someone is going to fake a viz. by simply slapping a sticker on there, aren’t they just going to fake some “paperwork“? If someone brings in tanks with a generic sticker, and shows you there TDI inspector card, Is that sufficient paperwork? That’s probably what would make @Marie13 happy as well. Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.

Personally, I think every sticker should have some identification of who did the inspection. End it to me, the name of a dive shop isn’t good enough. I have generic CTS stickers, but they have a spot for me to put my inspection number. Which is exactly what I do.

But in the end, I live a couple of states away from dive right in scuba, and don’t plan on getting any fills there in the immediate future… So Mike, you do what you have to do!

So, our policy is written and on the internet, it's been told to her. She misunderstood and came here telling a story that isn't true, and I have to change things?

She doesn't need additional paperwork, our site even says that. Nobody told her differently.

Paperwork, there is documentation that needs to be done when doing a Visusal, this isn't made up. You must not be an inspector, or you would know that. Yes,a card, showing that you're an inspector, is enough. Like our site says, I can't help she "heard" something different. I think what's unreasonable is our policy being twisted, and you're telling me I should do, what I'm already doing, as well as have in print...

Your second to last sentence, is what we do. Again, I can't help that Marie misunderstood what she was told, but it's in black and white on our site. I'm seriously banging my head over this. LOL, I'm telling you we are doing what our site says, and has said for 11 years.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Website says VIP stickers do not need to show inspector information “if you are the inspector.”

And the website is correct. What's confusing? Nobody has said differently to you. The policy is in print, for a reason....to prevent confusion. I'm not sure how we are here, as it's literally in black and white, yet for some reason you telling everyone my policy is different, makes it different?

 

[Marie13]

I specifically asked if my name and cert number had to be on my own tanks and I was told that was correct.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I specifically asked if my name and cert number had to be on my own tanks and I was told that was correct.

And as I had told you, thru FB, that's for other shops and what they may ask for. If you recall, I even suggested taking a picture of the form as you never know what a shop or employee may ask for, and it was better to be prepared. That education was about what roadblocks you could run into from other shops.

 

[Schwob]

Well, it seems there is some conflicting information about us, and I've read a few pages, and don't feel like going thru the other 25.

So, Marie13, who is local to us took the VIP course WITH US, and seems to be off base a little on her understading of our stance eventhough 2 people, including myself, have explained it..

Yes, if you come in with a Generic VIP sticker, with no Instructor or Shop name or Certification number on it, we do ask for the paperwork to show it was completed. What is wrong with that? We've had numerous people not do the VIPs, and just throw a sticker on them when they weren't even an inspector. This is to protect our people and keep them safe when filling, especially when it comes to O2!

I'm sorry that she has blown this out of proportion and our stance on it. It's a safety precaution, and it works very well. We've even done FREE Vips when people were in a jam,and couldn't provide it. It's more about education, and safety vs. a hardline stance and its' worked very well! Not a single person has ever been turned away, and that was told to Marie13. She was also told that some shops could have a harder line stance, and there were others in the area that had the same stance and to always just have the paperwork with her, or a pic on her phone to show it was completed if needed as all shops are different.

We even offer those that have their VIP rating, to come in and use our tools and have our guys check when done if they feel more comfortable. They can even get new o-rings, a sticker, and a fill for only $5. All because we are trying to help them if it's something they only do once a year so they are comfortable and don't skip steps. Again, education.

If there is a name, or identifying person,shop, or cert #, then it's all good and nothing is needed. It's just the generic stickers that we ask for proof it was completed, to keep our staff safe.

If I missed something else in the 27 pages about us, feel free to refresh it and say it here for an answer. But, that's our stance, and why it comes about.

Unlike Marie 13 thinks, our policy has been this way for 11 years, unchanged, and thru the times that we helped write the SDI/TDI standards for VIP tanks. I can't help what people say about us, or our policies that is untrue. I would think the majority of you, would know better of us! Some of what she has said, is completely untrue and twisted completely out of context from what was explained.

Looks fair and square to me!
Thanks for clarifying!

We all try to avoid it. Stuff happens. Here the stuff seems to have been a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of sorts. Your reply here should really clear that up to all, wherever / however the misunderstanding may have happened. You also do have a point (and as “boss” a duty) to protect your employees from exposure to uninspected, tanks with VIP stickers from fake inspectors. You policy, which you explained quite clearly here seems very reasonable and extremely accommodating.

While stuff, like misunderstandings and misinterpretations happen and get fixed and everybody moves on it isn’t the right way to go about safety matters. Your policy allows you to do what you can to preemptively not let stuff happen where consequences could be too high, I.e. potentially unsafe tanks and it may help one or the other rusty once in a while inspector to get a helping second opinion where uncertain or concerned and possibly even learn more along the way. By the looks of it, especially now that it’s clear***, I think it looks like a very outstanding policy.

*** One thing I learned here:
Next time when picking up something from the internet second hand, I might want to check with “the horse’s mouth” directly first, especially if I have a chance to to so. In this case I was a month and an ocean away, but that’s no excuse really. So, again, thanks for clarifying.

 

[abnfrog]

mike are you saying @Marie13 did a vip course with you ? or did a second one with you ,just asking