separate octopus vs. bcd inflator/second stage combo

[Bob DBF]

People tend to neglect their secondary because they do not use.

And that is the actual problem. A neglected secondary, regardless of whether that secondary is the same as your primary, will have the same outcome.

I probably use my secondary for 5 or 10 minutes on a dive, if every diver did that, I doubt that anyone would neglect their reg. At that point they can get it tuned properly and then decide whether it needs replacement.

I encourage divers to try different configurations, not because I think one is best, but one may be best for them. Also, because when I started there were no choices.



Bob

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Not really over dramatic. Just a good analogy. While they all work, they do not work equally. People tend to neglect their secondary because they do not use. But when they need it, they really need it. Just like a spare tire. Which was the point.

Soo true, and yet at least they breath it every dive (or at least pretend to) how many divers have you seen regularly check their SPG against their dive computer.

 

[Bob DBF]

...how many divers have you seen regularly check their SPG against their dive computer.

None, most I’m around don’t have AI, and the ones that do have no SPG. Now whether they check computer against a standard I don’t know, it wasn’t done in my vicinity.

I don’t usually wear a depth gauge with my computer, unless I’m checking the depth gauge. Same goes for my mechanical bottom timer.


Bob

 

[Belzelbub]

Not really over dramatic. Just a good analogy. While they all work, they do not work equally. People tend to neglect their secondary because they do not use. But when they need it, they really need it. Just like a spare tire. Which was the point.

It's a good analogy only for tech or cave diving where a relatively quick ascent to the surface is not possible or safe. For non-overhead environments, the Death Valley analogy doesn't really work. For those dives, I just need it to work to bring the (two) diver(s) to the surface. The dive is over at that point. If it breathes a little harder, that's OK. Especially since the OOA (and likely panicky) diver is using my primary.

Of more importance is making sure everything is in good working order. First stage, Primary, Octo, Octo/inflator, whatever.

 

[lexvil]

In the analogy, I want the run flat, no way I’m changing a tire in that heat.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

It's a good analogy only for tech or cave diving where a relatively quick ascent to the surface is not possible or safe. For non-overhead environments, the Death Valley analogy doesn't really work. For those dives, I just need it to work to bring the (two) diver(s) to the surface. The dive is over at that point. If it breathes a little harder, that's OK. Especially since the OOA (and likely panicky) diver is using my primary.

Of more importance is making sure everything is in good working order. First stage, Primary, Octo, Octo/inflator, whatever.

The make sure everything is in working order part is the key, what kind of "tire changing equipment" to use the above analogy you have is much less important than knowing when and how to use it, they all get the job done, they all have +/-.

None, most I’m around don’t have AI, and the ones that do have no SPG. Now whether they check computer against a standard I don’t know, it wasn’t done in my vicinity.
Bob

That is my point, most people rely on their alternative air source rather than checking their air and air consumption, I agree you need to have an alternative so please don't think I advocate not having one, but unless you suffer a catastrophic equipment failure (and yes I have had a "intentional" burst disk failure) as a wise man once said running out of breathing gas should not ever be an event that happens unexpectedly.

 

[jakehbk]

One thing I will say about the combo, and I use the Scubapro Air2 variant, is that I always know right where it is. I've seen and had octos come unclipped and loose before. But I've never had my inflator disappear during a dive.

And like everybody else is saying, all of these systems work, but you have to keep your skills sharp with whatever you're using and practice its deployment every now and then.

 

[outofofficebrb]

I think they are an awful idea. Unnecessary complications are introduced to the OOA situation which is already difficult enough and life threatening if not managed properly. And the upside is very marginal, one fewer hose and second stage - does that make or break your enjoyment of the dive?

In BSAC they don’t qualify as an alternate source.

I agree. For what it's worth, I know a handful of people with it and they have all had issues with it. When it acts up, you can't just easily swap it out for a rental octo or reg set at a dive shop or on a liveaboard easily because the connections are not standard. You should be bringing spares and/or know how to service it yourself. You'd be sitting out dives and/or or stuck with rental gear, assuming they are available and I've been on liveaboards that did not have any rental gear on board though rare. With that said, if you have an issue with a standard octo and there is no rental either, you're still in the same boat...But if there are rentals and other options and you have an Air2, you won't be able to use them or easily, at least. I once had an issue with my regs on a liveaboard and it was nice to be able to swap it out while they tinkered with it and I kept diving. After taking Rescue, it solidified my thoughts on wanting my inflation device to be separate from a breathing source.

I once had 2 separate buddies with a leaking Air 2 or similar device and they decided to disconnect the hose. So, in an emergency, they would have to connect the hose (possibly fumbling with it), then switch breathing sources before they hand me my air. Let's just say I found new buddies on both those dives when that happened. That is obviously a user/buddy issue but I do like that if someone has a slightly leaking traditional octo, they are not able to "turn it off" and make me worry about what's going to happen to me in case of an emergency.

Plus, I do like to offer and receive a nicely breathing air source in case of an emergency. I think the possible drawbacks outweigh the marginal benefit, if any, as others have stated. It is a personal risk/benefit/analysis for many.

 

[kmarks]

None, most I’m around don’t have AI, and the ones that do have no SPG. Now whether they check computer against a standard I don’t know, it wasn’t done in my vicinity.

I don’t usually wear a depth gauge with my computer, unless I’m checking the depth gauge. Same goes for my mechanical bottom timer.


Bob

I have both. One of these days I'll get over it and put the SPG away and only pull it out when I have that dead battery in the middle of a vacation and the SPG was brought along as my backup, like I originally intended. But for now, I have both attached to my first stage. And I check and compare them to each other repeatedly because I'm neurotic and don't know which one not to trust. They are always within 50 psi of each other.

 

[wnissen]

The staff member who sold me my regs strongly recommended against the integrated, having been in an air-sharing situation where buoyancy control was an issue. For me, the issue is decided by the breathing effort of a nice alternate. When you adrenaline is racing, you're going to be breathing at twice your normal rate, more if you're also fighting a current or similarly exerting yourself. Think about that cheap rental reg that didn't really breathe that well but was tolerable. Now imagine you're trying to get twice the gas out of it. I wish I could credit the author, but one of the books I read made the paradoxical recommendation that your nice reg should be your alternate and your crappy one the primary. Upon reflection, this makes a lot of sense. My two bar.