Is there a "hardest cert/most stringent certifier?"

[drmwc]

My fundies anecdote: I got a provisional pass 4 years ago. I needed a better valve drill To get a full pass.

It turns out that I have PFO, so I decided to get bent rather than finish the course. This was 2 months after the course. (It was walking my twin-set up a hill after the dive that caused the shunt.)

I finally have a date for the PFO closure, so hopefully I can finally pass the thing.

 

[O-ring]

GUE Fish ID was by far the hardest class I have taken to date. It's nearly impossible to tell the fish apart when they are all wearing black and configured identically.

 

[KevinNM]

GUE Fish ID was by far the hardest class I have taken to date. It's nearly impossible to tell the fish apart when they are all wearing black and configured identically.

But they all look cool!

 

[stretchthepenn]

Imagine how silly it would sound if someone said, Harvard, MIT, Oxford do not matter. Look for a good professor instead.

It's not entirely silly. At the graduate level, and oftentimes in niche fields, the institution does matter far less than the professors.

 

[stretchthepenn]

The MIT/Harvard analogy is not a good one. In order to become a professor at these institutions, you have to be well above the rest in terms of how your research pushes the front of knowledge in a particular field. How well you can teach is given little consideration.

Hear, hear.

 

[rjack321]

It's not entirely silly. At the graduate level, and oftentimes in niche fields, the institution does matter far less than the professors.

Not to mention comparing scuba agencies to an actual university is bunkus. Unless you are comparing something like the online University of Phoenix to PADI e-learning or something.

 

[GameChanger]

GUE is hands down the top organization if you're looking to become a better diver, and the hardest to pass. All the instructors are truly incredible divers, and the course requirements are very strict.

Going off certification alone, you have no idea how good a diver certified by PADI or the other big name companies is--since getting certified is just a matter of opening your wallet, and not doing anything ridiculously stupid during the class/dives they could be an amazing diver, or an awful one. Big range. But if someone is GUE certified, you're guaranteed they're a fantastic diver; the course requirements to pass are so strict that even those who have dived their entire life often don't pass.

But, comparing GUE to regular organizations doesn't make much sense. GUE attracts a completely different diver; people who are very serious about diving, and treat it more as a "sport" rather than a hobby, and want to perfect their skills. GUE also has a military-like mindset, requiring conformity in everything. Which wrist you put your compass on, what type of BC you use, how long your hoses are, etc. everything is standardized.

For a lot of people, that rigidity is a turn-off, but if you're looking for the most stringent certifier they're what you're looking for.

My Fundies instructor is a very experienced and knowledgeable mulit- agency instructor and DM with all kinds of advanced agency certifications to his resume. He said that when he took his first Fundies course, the class was made up of AOW divers and Tech divers from various agencies. He assumed it would be a breeze for him. To his shock and dismay, he was the only student that failed the class (bouancy & trim). He, of course, eventually passed and is now a GUE Instructor. He told me this story to lower my "First Time Pass" expectations.

 

[loosenit2]

Imagine how silly it would sound if someone said, Harvard, MIT, Oxford do not matter. Look for a good professor instead.

Realize this is an old thread but it just popped up in my feed.

I agree with the sentiment but perhaps causality should be examined. Great schools are great schools because they attract the most talented professors and students on a regular basis, thus they cultivate the reputation.

So maybe another way to answer this question might be to ask what agencies are attracting the best instructors on a regular basis? How would we measure that, or better yet how might agencies measure that and advertise the fact in an attempt to garner attention and additional business? in other words create an aura of exclusivity. I've never taken a GUE class but they seem to be doing that better than others, at least in small groups and on boards like this, although I would bet 99% of divers have never heard of GUE.

 

[kelemvor]

Overall, standard of diver training at the recreational level is disappointingly poor. Consensus on this board is that "it is not the agency but the instructor that matters." To me this statement is indicative of the fact that training agencies are a global failure. The whole purpose of a certification agency is to create and maintain a certain standard across the board. Imagine how silly it would sound if someone said, Harvard, MIT, Oxford do not matter. Look for a good professor instead. Or, it does not matter whether it is Burger King, McDonalds or Harveys. Just look for the Chef. The rhetoric which is unacceptable in almost any other context is totally acceptable when we talk about the diving industry.

The only two exceptions I can think of are GUE and UTD. While I am not fully convinced of everything these guys do and I find their training and diving to be expensive, one thing that I give them credit for is that they do a far better job at maintaining standard than any other agency I have come across. This is not to say that other agencies do not have good instructors but that they do a pathetic job at filtering out the bad ones.

I have to agree almost completely. I'm less convinced about GUE and UTD. GUE last I heard was still talking about the brain being better than a dive computer (or did they give that up after it was disproven?). UTD takes it a step further and teaches a "decompression strategy" that has been debunked by science. Not that I hate them, but these two things that some random fat guy came up with off the top of his head says that they're not perfect.

I like a lot of what GUE sells but I think sometimes they get hung up on the nuances of a concept.

 

[Dominik_E]

It's not entirely silly. At the graduate level, and oftentimes in niche fields, the institution does matter far less than the professors.

This. Actually this is precisely the thing that a scientist is getting asked. Whom have we worked with, and on what topics.

Regarding the original question: we are in the clear on everyone now offering their favourite (tech)-agency because the require much. I do have a completely different question: from whom can I learn the things I am interested in?