Regulator for tec

[Angelo Farina]

Yeah, I know people do service their own SP regs, a buddy of mine does his own but SP won't sell you the service kits, you have to find them on eBay or find a shop that will sell them to you. HOG is way more friendly to the diy customer. Nothing against SP regs how they perform or whatever I just think you get a lot more bang for your buck HOG when you're talking about multiple regs.

For most devices you cannot buy parts directly from the factory, and you need to buy them at your local dealer (or online): your car, your washing machine, your computer, etc.
Why do you think that for regs it should be different?
Do you like the idea of purchasing a car from a very small company, with no dealers or authorized repair centers?
And yes, also a car is a very dangerous device, and a failure can cost you health or life...

 

[grf88]

For most devices you cannot buy parts directly from the factory, and you need to buy them at your local dealer (or online): your car, your washing machine, your computer, etc.
Why do you think that for regs it should be different?
Do you like the idea of purchasing a car from a very small company, with no dealers or authorized repair centers?
And yes, also a car is a very dangerous device, and a failure can cost you health or life...

In North America you cannot buy parts for many regs from the dealer unless they are installed by the dealer. This is an arrangement by the manufacturer or distributor and dive shops can lose their dealership by breaking that agreement. I realize that in Europe it is different and that is where I source my Apeks parts.
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[The Chairman]

Why do you think that for regs it should be different?

No one minds buying parts from a dealer, but many are under contract to not sell them. Many company sponsored servicing classes don't even require the tech to rebuild a reg. It's mostly a lecture about how much better their reg is over everyone else's. Only my Atomic and Hog classes required me actually produce a working reg. They seem to hide behind liability, but there is none when the tech is the user.
BTW, I can Ford parts from the Ford dealership or Toyota parts from the Toyota dealership.

And yes, also a car is a very dangerous device, and a failure can cost you health or life...

Yet no training is required to tinker with them.

I don't think saying "avoid the small guys" is a reasonable statement to make,

Especially since some of the big names have gone out of business. The most recent were Ares and Sherwood. But yes, I agree with that fully. I remember when Atomic was new, Apexs too.

 

[fish149]

For most devices you cannot buy parts directly from the factory, and you need to buy them at your local dealer (or online): your car, your washing machine, your computer, etc.
Why do you think that for regs it should be different?
Do you like the idea of purchasing a car from a very small company, with no dealers or authorized repair centers?
And yes, also a car is a very dangerous device, and a failure can cost you health or life...

Scuba pro does not want individuals servicing their own regs, only tecs working at SP dealers, HOG is more in DIY friendly in this regard. The company is more appealing to me for this reason and may be to others as well. That is my only point.

 

[loosenit2]

For most devices you cannot buy parts directly from the factory, and you need to buy them at your local dealer (or online): your car, your washing machine, your computer, etc.
Why do you think that for regs it should be different?
Do you like the idea of purchasing a car from a very small company, with no dealers or authorized repair centers?
And yes, also a car is a very dangerous device, and a failure can cost you health or life...

For most things I have no trouble buying parts from other than a factory authorized dealer. I own two European cars, I have no problem finding repair parts for those two cars from hundreds of retailers, I am not limited to only factory authorized service centers. I have performed many repairs on my two cars in this way. Scubapro runs a much more restrictive supply chain where they will not sell repair parts to anyone but their factory authorized service centers (LDSs) and those service centers are prohibited from reselling those parts to customers to do their own work. (at least in the USA, this may not be the case worldwide)

I recently changed the hard drive on my daughters Nintendo Wii, I was able to procure a hard drive easily enough but had to buy a Nintendo specific special tool (a screwdriver with a triangular head) to be able to open the case and replace the hard drive. Nintendo uses this proprietary screw head for one purpose, to discourage people from performing their own repairs and instead try to force them to take the item to a factory repair facility. Scubapro does exactly the same thing, designing their regulators so that they take special tools to work on them, not because it is necessary from an engineering perspective but because it discourages individuals from working on their own equipment.

The scubapro business model is not unique, there are many companies that try to run very closed systems, apple & bose come to mind. But for every one of those companies there is a competitor who runs a more open business model. Customers are free to chose what company and business model works for them and I won't knock anyone choices.

 

[LanceRiley]

@chairman is referring to dives where you cannot really just “end the dive”, and surface if you have a second stage issue. Sure in a true OOA situation, you could exit from Cisteen, but that’s actually fairly unusual in cave diving. If you have a second stage start acting 3,000 linear ft back in most caves, you have to make your way back out before you can surface.

I got that.. at the present im just an adventurous padi rescue diver who feels that its time to level up. Just trying to get the needed stuffs before the training . Too costly to splurge on everything 1 time.

 

[LanceRiley]

All SP regs are made here in Italy, not in Germany.
You can buy the MK19 from any official online reseller here in Europe. It should be a great reg, particularly for dirty water, albeit I cannot testify, not having used one.
Here, for example, form Spain, matched with the new D420: Comprar Regulador de Buceo Scubapro MK19/D420 online - Alvarez

When i first dived. It was love at first dive. There we were on 1 sunday with friends from hischool . Hes a padi dive master. Gave us our first dive. I remember on that monday rushing to the dealer to get all my gear. Before the next sunday came i was in complete gear ready for open water class hahahha. Everyone bought the mk25 saying its the best. I chose the mk17 because its environmentally sealed. They talked of how much air mk25 could give etc. i doubt anyone has ever reached that point that modern first stage lacked the ability to give enough air at depth. And theres also hose routing. Its supposedly better because of the 5th bottom port. Well with a long hose that would help a lot. So hearing about the mk19 for the fitst time ... i think would be perfect for a tech reg.. not jst for doubles but as a single tank as well.

Your link doesnt work. Im going to. My lds when it opens today. I remember the sales mentioning about mk19

 

[LanceRiley]

Well everyone’s technical skills vary i see we have reached cars.

Well family business is reconditioning trucks. I have truck problems everyday and ill always figure out the problem before the end of the day..

Maybe with enough time and training + guidance from a technician or a friend. Ill be able to rebuild regs. I dont necessarily baby my regs. But i do maintain them. They still look as new as they were bought in 2011. Well hoses were replaced as they started to leak afte my 4yr hiatus. My s600 has scratches due to sometimes being dragged by boatmen.

If by 1 day ill figure out the servicing of regs. And be able to get all the tools. Ill probably try out one of those dgx dep6 hig regs for educational purpose. As a diver i dont wana end up watching the ocean which i pass everyday going to my farm... and not have a reg to duvd with. Scubapro dealer cant overhaul regs here. They need it to send it to the next dealer to overhaul. And thats 2 weeks off, that might be fine in a 1st world country where scuba diving is a time luxury, not here... its a backyard hobby

We have the time to dive and we dont need to travel far. Better sites are like 2hrs boatride. And we call that far

Diving in my country sounds like a very exotic and rich hobby to go into with the average rate of 50-60$ per dive. Im one of the lucky ones who found good company who shared to us how to get a 20-30$ 2 boatdives including food. Ofcourse we had to cook. But the point was cheap fun. But theres no going around the fact that getting mk17/mk25 is costly. Let alone buy 2 more for getting into tech class. Id say im one of the lucky ones to be able to afford, most of the divers who do it for a living cant . Some are still using the mk 10s.

For instance i befriended a dive shop yesterday. Padi dive shop. Somehow managed to convince the owner to let me dive in his shop for the price of a tank . 4$ and i can just join in his boat ride. I duno call it charisma? Smooth talker?

My 1st dive shop allows me the same thing but.... he doesnt have dive tours on sunday. So i have to round up 6divers and up to be able to cost 30$ for 2 dives on a boat. And i need half of that to be experienced divers.

2nd dive shop is a commercial one... 40$ 2dives boat.

So this is my 3rd option 4$ just ride on the boat lol

And all these shops are less than 4kms from each other.

Its always best to make friends with everyone ... that way more options

 

[The Chairman]

Where did I mention "death" or anything related to what you claim I said in my post you reference please?

In an earlier post you referenced a reg failure at 60 meters and implied the spectre of death. Nope, I didn't quote it, but am alluding to what you posted. I actually read the entire thread before I posted.

Are you objecting to the fact that these companies are indeed tiny/diminutive when compared to AL, SP, Huish Group for example?

Those aren't the words you first posted and I responded to, are they? Huish became big by buying companies at bargain basement prices. Some of which were probably on their way to going out of business. But I do remember when a few reputable reg companies were mere startups. To be sure, all of those companies were new and quite small once, so that can't be bad. Personally, I like companies that are run by divers for divers and I support them when I can.

and hence your argument holds no water

Are you suggesting this didn't happen? Wow. Just wow. It's not an "argument", but a real event on regs serviced by a professional technician. It's not that my regs wouldn't "hold water", but that it was causing me to breathe it. To put this in perspective, it was my first experience as a Dive Master assisting an instructor. My main job was to keep an eye on the class, making sure that they didn't run out of gas and provide them air should they run out in spite of my vigilance. Well, I guess two out of three is OK by you.

The absolute majority of people have a certified/trained technician do the service and not themselves and yet no recorded deaths anywhere, again according to you.

Incredible! The same can be said about the tech divers who rebuild their own regs. Ergo, your point is invalid. See how that works?

Again, it's my opinion that if you want to be a legitimate tech diver, you should be able to service all of your gear, including your regs. It's much harder to do if you can't get the parts for them.

Good for you but you live in a privileged and prosperous society/country in very big contrast to many in the rest of the world,

OK, the regs I use for my tech are the cheapest regs on the market. They're still great regs. In addition, I don't pay someone else to service my regs. So why even bring where I live up, except to disparage me? You disparage me. You disparage regs you don't use. You prove my point that you have the attitude that if you don't "teach, sell or dive it, then it must be crap!". Regs aren't bad just because you don't dive them. Manufacturers aren't miniature or make belief just because you don't like them. Especially since you really don't give us any facts to back up your dislike.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Scuba pro does not want individuals servicing their own regs, only tecs working at SP dealers, HOG is more in DIY friendly in this regard. The company is more appealing to me for this reason and may be to others as well. That is my only point.

Probably this changed over time.
I was trained at the Italian Scubapro factory, and not only the technician did show me how to service my reg. I was sent to the assembling line and for approximately one hour I replaced one of the workers, mounting and tuning production regs (just two, in one hour).
I was yet an university student, not working for a shop.
It was a real "hands on" training, with little theory, apart when they did show me the machine for measuring the cracking pressure and the other one for charting the respiratory cycle.
I had understood that all the technicians allowed to service SP regs had the same training.
It must be said that, in such old times, there were no "diving shops", nor "diving centers".
Teaching was done only at diving clubs, which was the way I managed to be trained. There was no PADI, nor other commercial training agencies.
Good clubs, with hundredths of associates, were allowed to make "bulk purchases" of diving equipment directly from the factory, usually once per year, and SP wanted that at least one instructor was properly trained for servicing their regs in each of these clubs.
Most divers did own a boat or a Zodiac, perhaps sharing the costs among 2 or 3 friends. There were no divemasters, diving was always a self-guided experience.
After having being trained, I was responsible of maintaining the huge set of cylinders and regulators of my club (and the 5 surviving AROs, pure-oxygen rebreathers).
I know that all this looks strange for people in the US, where diving (as almost anything else) has always been mostly a commercial activity, not a sport practised under the national Olympic no-profit organization.