Logging Shallow Dives? ex. Rivers

[Subcooled]

A most important thing in diving is buoyancy control (another one is monitoring your SPG).

The hardest place possible to control buoyancy is at ten feet. It becomes easier as depth increases.

If you only dive at ten feet and you can control you buoyancy, your skill is golden. What could you possibly learn at greater depth?
(it may be darker, it may be colder, you may consume your gas at a faster pace, mental stress may increase... but buoyancy control becomes simple)

We must remember though that as single divers we should prepare for the unexpected. In this respect, a broad experience would be beneficial. Unless you only do one type of dives alone...

 

[Subcooled]

I wouldn't take the same dive 100 times as enough diving experience

I can see that depth is not the issue here, but breadth of experience?

 

[TMHeimer]

We all know there is some sort of parameter for an "official" dive. Like 15' for 20 minutes or something like that. Not sure where any agency has written that down and don't care.
Agree it probably varies a lot from instructor to instructor, shop to shop, as to what counts. I wouldn't know myself since no instructor (or dive charter for that matter) has ever looked at my log book. That includes for the DM course (maybe they trusted me because I got my OW and other courses there?).
I log all dives (except pool of course).

 

[uw]

To your first question, the answer is "depends on the agency." The official requirements to count a dive as a "logged dive" for a particular purpose depends on the agency. Since certification/training agencies are private companies they are each free to decide what they mean by a "logged dive".

For example, here is my recollection of the PADI definitions. For a training dive to count towards a course requirement it must be mostly at 5m or greater depth for at least 20 minutes and some minimum air consumption as well. However the PADI definition for logged dives has no depth, time, or air consumption requirements. They only have to be open water dives where you've logged the dive details. So, no bathtub dives, but all your logged river dives count "officially", if you were training with PADI. Since PADI doesn't offer a solo course, you're probably looking elsewhere, so check with candidate shops and ask them.

To your second question(s):
Beyond official requirements, many shops exercise considerable latitude and may require more (sometimes less) than their certifying agency specifies. How well they already know you often plays a big part. In my experience, shops that take dive training and dive safety seriously require (sometimes much) more. They'll probably also tell you what they consider advisable or preferred experience to have to get the most out of the course (have fun, learn a lot).

So I think the way to get specific answers to your questions is to ask the instructor at the shop where you plan to do the training, and if you have options, go ask at multiple dive shops and compare answers. My only advice (sorry, I know you only asked for information, not advice!) is to get answers to all 3 questions: certifying agency official requirement, their minimum requirements, and their recommended experience.

Uwe

 

[Sam Miller III]

@Barnaby'sDad

I am just a slow waling ,slow thinking, slow talking, broken down SoCal diver but perhaps I can offer some advice to you and you can relay it to your future NAUI instructors


Logging Dives

A bit of sage advice -- Log every hyperbaric exposure-- from the swimming pool and your training to mud puddles, quarries to the ocean -- It is all hyperbaric exposure -- the body cannot identify if the water is fresh clear pool water, a mud puddle or ocean salt water.

This present generation is the very first generation in the history of man to experience massive often long term hyperbaric exposure. Who knows what effects such exposure will have on health and longevity ?

Based on the very small samples of those who began diving long before the popularity of recreational diving it is possible that audio and equilibrium systems will be impacted as well as orthopedic involvement in the form of aseptic bone necrosis and yet to be identified or named diving maladies

At this junction in the very short history of diving there is no data to determine if this can or will occur

Never the less I would suggest that you log ALL hyperbaric exposures
,

Logging dives has been around for a while --

The first US log book was designed in 1955 (65 years ago) by the late Dick Bonin founder of SCUBA Pro and marketed by the long gone company called "Dive Master: of Chicago
@drbill, and @Marie13, note there was a huge dive operation in your town 60 plus years ago and they taught diving -- Zale Parry drbills close personal friend is Dive Master #10 as well as the 3d female instructor in the world via LA Co UIA ).

The second dive log was designed by Tom Ebro in 1966 (11 years later - 54 years ago ) As a requirement for the LA County Underwater Instructors Association for use in the worlds first ADP, the LA CO three (3) month long many dives in as many environuts Advanced Diver Program, aka ADP and for use in the LA Co UICC, the worlds first underwater training program established in 1954, which continues as the worlds most demanding a prestigious diving instructors training program, ( you don't put a dollar in and by your certificate in that course)

The rest of the diving world did not immediately develop dive logs but when the did they used, aka change the cover and/or patterned their dive logs after LA Counties' log book.. Now there are many diving logs in every format-- ----choose one that fits your needs

I suspect that some organizations and resorts demand logs be maintained and presented ($$$)

It is recommend that you maintain a dive log- and take it on every dive trip and log every dive ASAP after the dive.
Log all that encompass hyperbaric exposure -in deep pool, a mud puddle, a quarry, a stream and the ocean- always include date, place depth and time. These entries are not only for your your benefit but are invaluable for the attending or treating doctor and nurses in the event of an unfortunate event or to treat some mysterious ailment when you reach dotage
According to my son Sam IV who is an ER & Hyperbaric doctor most admits to ERs and for Hyperbaric treatment with diving related problems are not accompanied by the important dive history.

However dive history is becoming better with the advent of the dive computer and should always accompany the affected diver to a chamber for treatment

The present generation is the first generation in the history of man that has been massively and repeatedly exposed to hyperbaric environments.

** Certain protocols for safe diving are in place -- slower assents, the safety stops .etc but long term value is undetermined at this juncture in time
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FYI
During the 1980s and 1990s we had a loose organization in SoCal called "The fathers of free diving and spear fishing, " which was composed of as the title describes the fathers of free diving and spear fishing -- the ones who formed basis for "recreational" diving." All began long before Cousteau arrived in the US in 1948 with his bubble machine . these were the men and occasional woman who were there in the early days of the sport , some in the 1920s, others in began in the 1930s and the youngsters in the 1940s which included me and and my companions.

We met periodically for over 10 years and soon noticed our ranks were thinning in numbers and those attending were advancing in age..

It was determined to have one last meeting of what was remaining of the tribe ( no disrespect to native Americans or Canadians First Nations ) but that was our accepted name --no supper duper pooper diver/instructor ...Just a member of the tribe.

2000 was the date..the last gathering of the tribe.. letters were sent, telephoned calls were made and the fathers world wide responded and attended. This was the last great gathering of a group that was privileged and honored to be a participant and observer of a series of events that occurred for a very short time and never ever will be experienced again up on this earth.

The common thread was hearing aids and orthopedic devices all indicated was related to diving

That was 20 years ago all of the tribe from the 20s and 30s have departed to the big reef in the sky and only a smattering remain of the 1940s tribe .My fellow "Fathers" who began with me in the 1940s are among those in the big reef in the sky I am now experiencing the long term effect of hyperbaric exposures -- hearing is reduced (a lot!) we all had lots of trauma to the ears, equilibrium difficulties and a minimum amount of osteonecrosis, and of course some ecpected ambulatory difficulties ....But -- I would not hesitate do it all over again !!!

My dear wife and all my five children have been diving in excess of over 40 years and all the grand children are on their way as divers . and we are all aware of the possible long term effects-- But for me it was an honor to be a member of the fathers and on occasion pass on some unsolited perhaps sage advice
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
fyi
you might want to google
San Diego Bottom Scratcher Spear Fishing club- Organized in 1931 89 years ago
Long Beach Neptune's Spear Fishing club-Organized in 1940s by Bill Barada
Charlie Sturgil-began diving in 1929
Dr. Sam Miller 111 diver or SCUBA
Dr. Sam Miller, IV ( use numbers in our family )
SAM IV is a NAUI (Life member) PADI instructor and SSI Pro 5000 (5000 verified dives ) as well as a ER & Hyperbaric doctor --has an impressive CV

So keep on logging dives !

Dr Sam Miller,111
NAUI instructor # A-27
( only Zale and I remain)

DD

 

[happy-diver]

Scary places rivers

 

[wstorms]

Since PADI doesn't offer a solo course, you're probably looking elsewhere, .

Actually they do. Self-Reliant Diver | PADI

I happen to teach it as well. One of the entry requirements is having a 100 dives, like mentioned by the OP. There is no requirement like "your experience should cover X Y Z" . The number of dives and prerequisite courses give the instructor a starting point to evaluate the clients level. After that, it is up to the instructor to determine actual real life suitability. Obviously, trim, buoyancy etc are really important, but the dives you actually want to do solo are also an important factor. A big part of the course is not simply "this is how you switch to a pony" but determining what is acceptable risk for you as a diver and what is not. Previous experience should be considered with that, in order to make a decent assessment.

A self reliant or solo certification certainly is not a card blanch to do what you like (then again, as soon as the class is over I am no longer scuba police), but aimed to give you the tools to determine for yourself if doing a specific dive solo is a good idea or not.
In addition, the enhanced self reliance can profit you on any dive, reg.

Not entirely certain why the tread was revived after a few months, but yeah, 100 is just a number. If you want to fake your log in order to lie to me, you are mostly lying to yourself.
Having a wide experience is always better than not having that experience, so if you can diversify your dives, always a good idea.

 

[Diving Dubai]

On task loading...deploying my SMB while staked into the ground with one hand (Cooper River) and attempting to launch it into the current and not get tangled up in the line was fun

Don't worry, we've all been there

I'm completely in support of the previous opinions that dive count on it's own isn't a great guage of competency, every one is different.

There are two sides to any skill, the mechanical aspect and movements, and the mental composure

For instance. With the SMB, I tech it in stages. Firstly I get teh person used to the mechanics of being comfortable on land and figuring out what is the best way to use their hands with holding the spool, inflation mechanism and smb etc - then we transition to doing that underwater from a stable stationary position, perfecting slow deliberate movements, and finally to the neutral position. As you master each part the task loading reduces

Similarly a skill you may wish to perfect is remove and replace BCD underwater. (somewhere safe and shallow) While the actual skill has some value to the solo diver, the real value is being able to complete teh skill (neutral) while remaining composed.


What you're trying to achieve is the ability to find all your clips and buckles by touch, in a slow deliberate fashion without jerky movements nor becoming flustered. Most people miss the point of this, thinking its only proof they can don and doff kit. We you perfect it then yoru breathing remains calm and with your relaxed composure you have the confident ability to solve issues underwater rather than becoming flustered

It doesn't matter if you're solo diving or diving with a buddy, remaining relaxed and comfortable ensures that most underwater issues are an annoyance rather than a panic inducing drama

Slow & relaxed, always slowly and relaxed

 

[ontdiver]

"...Log every hyperbaric exposure-- from the swimming pool..."

I was on a LOB a number of years ago and my instabuddy, who was competent diver, stated that he had over 600 dives. My number at the time was significantly lower, but I had had a couple of trips in the Caribbean (LOB and land based) as well as a number of dives in the St. Lawrence River where variable and challenging conditions including viz, current, lake freighters and temp force you to up your game. In any case, after diving together for a couple of days and seeing that my skills were sound, my DB mentioned somewhat sheepishly that his count involved a number of pool dives. The topic did not come up again and I had not thought about it until seeing this thread.

In any case, and as noted above, "...dive count on it's own isn't a great guage of competency, every one is different.."

 

[Esprise Me]

Does anyone log dives without counting them, or keep separate counts or sub-counts? I was thinking about volunteering at the aquarium at some point, but I'm not sure I want to someday tell people I have X dives when half of those were in a fish tank. I was thinking maybe I'd log those but have a separate count: A1, A2, etc. I already track within my total dive count certain types of dives (beach, night, deep) because I like having more detailed stats (e.g. I have X dives but only Y% of those involved surf entries.)